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The Stars, Stripes, and the Star of David...
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: The Stars, Stripes, and the Star of David... Reply with quote

America's one-eyed view of war:
Stars, stripes, and the Star of David

There are two sides to every conflict - unless you rely on the US media for information about the battle in Lebanon. Viewers have been fed a diet of partisan coverage which treats Israel as the good guys and their Hizbollah enemy as the incarnation of evil.

Andrew Gumbel reports from Los Angeles


If these were normal times, the American view of the conflict in Lebanon might look something like the street scenes that have electrified the suburbs of Detroit for the past four weeks.

In Dearborn, home to the Ford Motor Company and also the highest concentration of Arab Americans in the country, up to 1000 people have turned out day after day to express their outrage at the Israeli military campaign and mourn the loss of civilian life in Lebanon. At one protest in late July, 15,000 people - almost half of the local Arab American population - showed up in a sea of Lebanese flags, along with anti-Israeli and anti-Bush slogans.

A few miles to the north, in the heavily Jewish suburb of Southfield, meanwhile, the Congregation Shaarey Zedek synagogue has played host to passionate counter-protests in which the US and Israeli national anthems are played back to back and demonstrators have asserted that it is Israel's survival, not Lebanon's, that is at stake here.

Such is the normal exercise of free speech in an open society, one might think. But these are not normal times. The Detroit protests have been tinged with paranoia and justifiable fear on both sides. Several Jewish institutions in the area, including two community centres and several synagogues, have hired private security guards in response to an incident in Seattle at the end of July, in which a mentally unstable 30-year-old Muslim walked into a Jewish Federation building and opened fire, killing one person and injuring five others.

On the Arab American side, many have expressed reluctance to stand up and be counted among the protesters for fear of being tinged by association with Hizbollah, which is on the United States' list of terrorist organisations. (As a result, the voices heard during the protests tend to be the more extreme ones.) They don't like to discuss their political views in any public forum, following the revelation a few months ago that the National Security Agency was wiretapping phone calls and e-mail exchanges as part of the Bush administration's war on terror.

They are even afraid to donate money to help the civilian victims of the war in Lebanon because of the intense scrutiny Islamic and Arab charities have been subjected to since the 9/11 attacks. The Bush administration has denounced 40 charities worldwide as financiers of terrorism, and arrested and deported dozens of people associated with them. Consequently, while Jewish charities such as the United Jewish Communities are busy raising $300m to help families affected by the Katyusha rockets raining down on northern Israel, donations to the Lebanese victims have come in at no more than a trickle.

Outside Detroit and a handful of other cities with sizeable Arab American populations, it is hard to detect that there are two sides to the conflict at all. The Dearborn protests have received almost no attention nationally, and when they have it has usually been to denounce the participants as extremists and apologists for terrorism - either because they have voiced support for Hizbollah or because they have carried banners in which the Star of David at the centre of the Israeli flag has been replaced by a swastika.

The media, more generally, has left little doubt in the minds of a majority of American news consumers that the Israelis are the good guys, the aggrieved victims, while Hizbollah is an incarnation of the same evil responsible for bringing down the World Trade Centre, a heartless and faceless organisation whose destruction is so important it can justify all the damage Israel is inflicting on Lebanon and its civilians.

The point is not that this viewpoint is necessarily wrong. The point - and this is what distinguishes the US from every other Western country in its attitude to the conflict - is that it is presented as a foregone conclusion. Not only is there next to no debate, but debate itself is considered unnecessary and suspect.

The 24-hour cable news stations are the worst offenders. Rupert Murdoch's Fox News has had reporters running around northern Israel chronicling every rocket attack and every Israeli mobilisation, but has shown little or no interest in anything happening on the other side of the border. It is a rarity on any of the cable channels to see any Arab being tapped for expert opinion on the conflict. A startling amount of airtime, meanwhile, is given to the likes of Michael D Evans, an end-of-the-world Biblical "prophet" with no credentials in the complexities of Middle Eastern politics. He has shown up on MSNBC and Fox under the label "Middle East analyst". Fox's default analyst, on this and many other issues, has been the right-wing provocateur and best-selling author Ann Coulter, whose main credential is to have opined, days after 9/11, that what America should do to the Middle East is "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Often, the coverage has been hysterical and distasteful. In the days following the Israeli bombing of Qana, several pro-Israeli bloggers started spreading a hoax story that Hizbollah had engineered the event, or stage-managed it by placing dead babies in the rubble for the purpose of misleading reporters. Oliver North, the Reagan-era orchestrator of the Iran-Contra affair who is now a right-wing television and radio host, and Michelle Malkin, a sharp-tongued Bush administration cheerleader who runs her own weblog, appeared on Fox News to give credence to the hoax - before the Israeli army came forward to take responsibility and brought the matter to at least a partial close.

As the conflict has gone on, the media interpretation of it has only hardened. Essentially, the line touted by cable news hosts and their correspondents - closely adhering to the line adopted by the Bush administration and its neoconservative supporters - is that Hizbollah is part of a giant anti-Israeli and anti-American terror network that also includes Hamas, al-Qa'ida, the governments of Syria and Iran, and the insurgents in Iraq. Little effort is made to distinguish between these groups, or explain what their goals might be. The conflict is presented as a straight fight between good and evil, in which US interests and Israeli interests intersect almost completely. Anyone who suggests otherwise is likely to be pounced on and ripped to shreds.

When John Dingell, a Democratic congressman from Michigan with a large Arab American population in his constituency, gave an interview suggesting it was wrong for the US to take sides instead of pushing for an end to violence, he was quickly - and loudly - accused of being a Hizbollah apologist. Newt Gingrich, the Republican former House speaker, accused him of failing to draw any moral distinction between Hizbollah and Israel. Rush Limbaugh, the popular conservative talk-show host, piled into him, as did the conservative newspaper The Washington Times. The Times was later forced to admit it had quoted Dingell out of context and reprinted his full words, including: " I condemn Hizbollah, as does everyone else, for the violence."

The hysteria has extended into the realm of domestic politics, especially since this is a congressional election year. Republican have sought to depict last week's primary defeat of the Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, one of the loudest cheerleaders for the Iraq war, as some sort of wacko extremist anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli stand that risks undermining national security. Vice-President Dick Cheney said Lieberman's defeat would encourage "al-Qa'ida types" to think they can break the will of Americans. The fact that the man who beat Lieberman, Ned Lamont, is an old-fashioned East Coast Wasp who was a registered Republican for much of his life is something Mr Cheney chose to overlook.

Part of the Republican strategy this year is to attack any media that either attacks them or has the temerity to report facts that contradict the official party line. Thus, when Reuters was forced to withdraw a photograph of Beirut under bombardment because one of its stringers had doctored the image to increase the black smoke, it was a chance to rip into the news agency over its efforts to be even-handed. In a typical riposte, Michelle Malkin denounced Reuters as "a news service that seems to have made its mark rubber-stamping pro-Hizbollah propaganda".

She was not the only one to take that view. Mainstream, even liberal, publications have echoed her line. Tim Rutten, the Los Angeles Times liberal media critic, denounced the "obscenely anti-Israeli tenor of most of the European and world press" in his most recent column.

It is not just the US media which tilts in a pro-Israeli direction. Congress, too, is remarkably unified in its support for the Israeli government, and politicians more generally understand that to criticise Israel is to risk jeopardising their future careers. When Antonio Villaraigosa, the up-and-coming Democratic Mayor of Los Angeles, was first invited to comment on the Middle East crisis, he sounded a note so pro-Israeli that he was forced to apologise to local Muslim and Arab community leaders. There is far less public debate of Israeli policy in the US, in fact, than there is in Israel itself.

This is less a reflection of American Jewish opinion - which is more diverse than is suggested in the media - than it is a commentary on the power of pro-Israeli lobby groups like Aipac, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which bankrolls pro-Israeli congressional candidates. That, in turn, is frustrating to liberal Jews like Michael Lerner, a San Francisco rabbi who heads an anti-war community called Tikkun. Rabbi Lerner has tried to argue for years that it is in Israel's best interests to reach a peaceful settlement, and that demonising Arabs as terrorists is counter-productive and against Judaism.

Lerner is probably right to assert that he speaks for a large number of American Jews, only half of whom are affiliated with pro-Israeli lobbying organisations. Certainly, dinner party conversation in heavily Jewish cities like New York suggest misgivings about Israel's strategic aims, even if there is some consensus that Hizbollah cannot be allowed to strike with impunity.

Few, if any, of those misgivings have entered the US media. "There is no major figure in American political life who has been willing to raise the issue of the legitimate needs of the Palestinian people, or even talk about them as human beings," Lerner said. "The organised Jewish community has transformed the image of Judaism into a cheering squad for the Israeli government, whatever its policies are. That is just idolatry, and goes against all the warnings in the Bible about giving too much power to the king or the state."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1219241.ece

Mod Edit: Fixed double post of article
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eh there is some repetition in that article. you might want to edit it a bit.


Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents? A little silly.
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
...Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents? A little silly....


Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.

Cheers.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why the USA does support Israel:

ANYBODY who doubts the size of the transatlantic divide over Israel should try discussing the Middle East conflagration in Britain and then doing the same in America. Everybody watches much the same grisly footage. But, by and large, people draw very different conclusions. The emphasis in Britain is overwhelmingly on the disproportionate scale of the response. Americans are much more inclined to give Israel the benefit of the doubt�and to blame Hizbullah. Some Jewish organisations are so confident of support for Israel that they even take out slots during news programmes, pleading for donations.

Opinion polls confirm that Americans are solidly on Israel's side. A USA Today/Gallup poll conducted on July 28th-30th showed that eight in ten Americans believed that Israel's action was justified�though a majority were worried about the scale of the action. A plurality (44%) thought that America was doing �about the right amount� to deal with the conflict. An earlier USA Today poll found that 53% put �a great deal� of the blame for the current crisis on Hizbullah, 39% put the blame on Iran and only 15% blamed Israel.


Similarly, Americans are far more likely than Europeans to side with Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A Pew Global Attitudes survey taken between March and May found that 48% of Americans said that their sympathies lay with the Israelis; only 13% were sympathetic towards the Palestinians. By contrast, in Spain for example, 9% sympathised with the Israelis and 32% with the Palestinians.

The political establishment is even more firmly behind Israel than the public is. Support for Israel stretches from San Francisco liberals like Nancy Pelosi to southern-fried conservatives like Bill Frist. The House and Senate have both passed bipartisan resolutions condemning Hizbullah and affirming Congress's support for Israel. The House version passed by 410 to 8 (of which three were from districts in Michigan with concentrations of Arab-Americans). The Senate resolution, sponsored by 62 senators�including the leaders of both parties�passed unopposed.

Indeed, the parties are engaged in a competition to see who can be the most pro-Israeli. Twenty or so Democrats, including Ms Pelosi, the House leader, and Harry Reid, the Senate leader, demanded that Iraq's prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, retract his criticisms of Israel or have his invitation to address Congress cancelled. (Mr Maliki, strongly backed by the administration, was eventually allowed to go ahead.) Several leading Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, have addressed pro-Israeli rallies. The contrast with the simmering rage within the Labour Party over Tony Blair's support for George Bush could hardly be more marked.

Pro-Israeli forces command the intellectual high ground as well as the corridors of power. Commentators such as Charles Krauthammer issue column after column ridiculing the notion of proportionality and stressing Hizbullah's responsibility for civilian casualties. Most middle-of-the-road commentators question the effectiveness, rather than the morality, of Israel's actions. Out-and-out critics of Israel are relegated to the sidelines.

Why is America so much more pro-Israeli than Europe? The most obvious answer lies in the power of two very visible political forces: the Israeli lobby (AIPAC) and the religious right. AIPAC, which has an annual budget of almost $50m, a staff of 200, 100,000 grassroots members and a decades-long history of wielding influence, is arguably the most powerful lobby in Washington, mightier even than the National Rifle Association.

�Thank God we have AIPAC, the greatest supporter and friend we have in the whole world,� says Ehud Olmert, Israel's prime minister. The lobby, which is the centrepiece of a co-ordinated body that includes pressure groups, think-tanks and fund-raising operations, produces voting statistics on congressmen that are carefully scrutinised by political donors. It also organises regular trips to Israel for congressmen and their staffs. (The Washington Post reports that Roy Blunt, the House majority whip, has been on four.)

The Christian right is also solidly behind Israel. White evangelicals are significantly more pro-Israeli than Americans in general; more than half of them say they strongly sympathise with Israel. (A third of the Americans who claim sympathy with Israel say that this stems from their religious beliefs.) Two in five Americans believe that Israel was given to the Jewish people by God, and one in three say that the creation of the state of Israel was a step towards the Second Coming.

Religious-right activists are trying to convert this latent sympathy into political support. John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who believes that supporting Israel is a �biblical imperative�, recently founded Christians United for Israel. Last month he brought 3,500 people from across the country to Washington to cheer Israel's war against Hizbullah. Mr Hagee's brigades held numerous meetings on Capitol Hill; both Mr Bush and Mr Olmert sent messages to his rally.

These pressure groups are clearly influential. Evangelical Christians make up about a quarter of the American electorate and are the bedrock of Mr Bush's support. Congressmen take on AIPAC at their peril. But they deal with well-heeled lobbies every day. And the power of the religious right can hardly explain why Democrats are so keen on Israel. Two other factors need to be considered: the war on Islamic radicalism, and deep cultural affinities between America and Israel.
Seeing themselves in Israel

Americans instinctively see events in the Middle East through the prism of September 11th 2001. They look at Hizbullah and Hamas with their Islamist slogans and masked faces and see the people who attacked America�and they look at Israeli citizens and see themselves. In America the �war on terror� is a fact of life, constantly reiterated. The sense that America is linked with Israel in a war against Islamist extremism is reinforced by Iranian statements about wiping Israel off the surface of the earth, and by the political advance of the Islamists of Hamas in Palestine.

But the biggest reason why Americans are so pro-Israel may be cultural. Americans see Israel as a plucky democracy in a sea of autocracies�a democracy that has every right to use force to defend itself. Europeans, on the other hand, see Israel as a reminder of the atavistic forces�from nationalism to militarism�that it has spent the post-war years trying to grow beyond.

Americans are staunch nationalists, much readier to contemplate the use of force than Europeans. A German Marshall Fund survey in 2005 found 42% of Americans strongly agreeing that �under some conditions, war is necessary to obtain justice� compared with just 11% of Europeans. A Pew survey found that the same proportion of Americans and Israelis believe in the use of pre-emptive force: 66%. Continental European figures were far lower.

Yet all this unquestioning support does not mean that America will give Israel absolute carte blanche to do whatever it wills. Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, was visibly shaken after the tragedy in Qana where at least 28 civilians, half of them children, were killed by Israeli bombs. There are growing worries both about Israel's conduct of the war and its wider impact on the Middle East. Many of these anxieties are expressed by the �realist faction�. Chuck Hagel, a Republican maverick, has given warning that America's relationship with Israel �cannot be at the expense of our Arab and Muslim relationships�. Richard Haass, a State Department official under George Bush senior who now heads the Council on Foreign Relations, has laughed publicly at the president's �birth of a new Middle East� optimism about the crisis. Some of the worries extend to conservatives. Tony Blankley, a former press secretary for Newt Gingrich and a fire-breathing columnist for the Washington Times, says that �We ignore world opinion at our peril.�

A few cracks are starting to appear. But they are still insignificant in the mighty edifice of support.

To Israel With Love

The Economist
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R. S. Refugee wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
...Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents? A little silly....


Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.

Cheers.


so people, why aren't you publically stating your thanks?
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
R. S. Refugee wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
...Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents? A little silly....


Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.

Cheers.


so people, why aren't you publically stating your thanks?


Such a comment is (I would think) beneath you, bb.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just asking a question.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R. S. Refugee wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
...Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents? A little silly....


Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.

Cheers.

I think you completely missed the point BB was making, let's try it again-

Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents?

BB isn't questioning your posting of articles, he's questioning your lack of commentary, as if they articles precisely speak for you, and for themselves.
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cut and paste wrote:
Similarly, Americans are far more likely than Europeans to side with Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A Pew Global Attitudes survey taken between March and May found that 48% of Americans said that their sympathies lay with the Israelis; only 13% were sympathetic towards the Palestinians. By contrast, in Spain for example, 9% sympathised with the Israelis and 32% with the Palestinians.


Thank God (no, I'm not going to hell for printing the "o") it's still a minority, if a bare one. I doubt that the survey contained a "none of the above" option, however.


cut and paste wrote:
The political establishment is even more firmly behind Israel than the public is.


Follow the shekels.


cut and paste wrote:
Indeed, the parties are engaged in a competition to see who can be the most pro-Israeli. Twenty or so Democrats, including Ms Pelosi, the House leader, and Harry Reid, the Senate leader, demanded that Iraq's prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, retract his criticisms of Israel or have his invitation to address Congress cancelled. (Mr Maliki, strongly backed by the administration, was eventually allowed to go ahead.) Several leading Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, have addressed pro-Israeli rallies.


Traitors for whom hanging is too good.


cut and paste wrote:
Pro-Israeli forces command the intellectual high ground as well as the corridors of power. Commentators such as Charles Krauthammer issue column after column ridiculing the notion of proportionality and stressing Hizbullah's responsibility for civilian casualties. Most middle-of-the-road commentators question the effectiveness, rather than the morality, of Israel's actions. Out-and-out critics of Israel are relegated to the sidelines.


A very dangerous and recent shift.


cut and paste wrote:
Why is America so much more pro-Israeli than Europe? The most obvious answer lies in the power of two very visible political forces: the Israeli lobby (AIPAC) and the religious right. AIPAC, which has an annual budget of almost $50m, a staff of 200, 100,000 grassroots members and a decades-long history of wielding influence, is arguably the most powerful lobby in Washington, mightier even than the National Rifle Association.


These traitors should be required to register as agents of foreign influence. Damn them to hell.


cut and paste wrote:
�Thank God we have AIPAC, the greatest supporter and friend we have in the whole world,� says Ehud Olmert, Israel's prime minister.


Is someone going to claim this quote is faked too?

Let the Israelis stand on their own. Let them go buy some other government and leave the U.S. out of their intractable tribal squabbles with their neighbors.


cut and paste wrote:
The lobby, which is the centrepiece of a co-ordinated body that includes pressure groups, think-tanks and fund-raising operations, produces voting statistics on congressmen that are carefully scrutinised by political donors. It also organises regular trips to Israel for congressmen and their staffs. (The Washington Post reports that Roy Blunt, the House majority whip, has been on four.)


It even includes moronic dupes like sundubuman.


cut and paste wrote:
The Christian right is also solidly behind Israel. White evangelicals are significantly more pro-Israeli than Americans in general; more than half of them say they strongly sympathise with Israel. (A third of the Americans who claim sympathy with Israel say that this stems from their religious beliefs.) Two in five Americans believe that Israel was given to the Jewish people by God, and one in three say that the creation of the state of Israel was a step towards the Second Coming.


Frightening.

Strange that not long ago White Christians were those least sympathetic to American Jewry.


cut and paste wrote:
Religious-right activists are trying to convert this latent sympathy into political support. John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who believes that supporting Israel is a �biblical imperative�, recently founded Christians United for Israel. Last month he brought 3,500 people from across the country to Washington to cheer Israel's war against Hizbullah. Mr Hagee's brigades held numerous meetings on Capitol Hill; both Mr Bush and Mr Olmert sent messages to his rally.


Should be crucified.

Or drawn and quartered.


cut and paste wrote:
These pressure groups are clearly influential. Evangelical Christians make up about a quarter of the American electorate and are the bedrock of Mr Bush's support. Congressmen take on AIPAC at their peril. But they deal with well-heeled lobbies every day. And the power of the religious right can hardly explain why Democrats are so keen on Israel. Two other factors need to be considered: the war on Islamic radicalism, and deep cultural affinities between America and Israel.


WTF???? What "cultural affinity" does America have with these cultists?


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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulsajo wrote:
R. S. Refugee wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
...Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents? A little silly....


Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.

Cheers.

I think you completely missed the point BB was making, let's try it again-

Why do you cut and paste articles anyway, w/out offering your two cents?

BB isn't questioning your posting of articles, he's questioning your lack of commentary, as if they articles precisely speak for you, and for themselves.


Pretty much. And to spare myself the label of "hypocrite" due to my own pasting of an article w/out a commentary...

I think the Economist article provides a good analysis of America's "fondness" for Israel. Many people are not informed of what's going on there, and simply support Israel because it is less alien than its neighbors.
Why are they not informed? I wouldn't blame the media; I merely blame it on human nature.

That being said, I do think AIPAC and the pro-Israeli lobby is a huge reason why Congress is so supportive of Israel. That and the fact that a large number of Jewish people are active in politics, so their interests and voices are heard very clearly.
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Mitch Comestein



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Location: South

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R. S. Refugee wrote:
Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.


Interesting.

A) What you're saying is that you have private meetings with individuals you admire, who are most likely more intelligent, powerful, and have more influence than you do. They ask you to use weapons that are given to you by other sources for your task. And in these secret meetings, they ask you to keep stirring up the pot and continuously launching into anti-Amrican and anti-Israel tirades because it furthers their own agendas.

Congratulations, Mr. Cut 'n' Paste, you're...



B) What you're saying is that you have private meetings with individuals you admire, who are most likely more intelligent, powerful, and are more well-spoken than you. In the end, you wind up looking like a moron for spouting off all the same old respun crap, and you end up taking all the crap for these puppeteers because you think that you are doing just work and you are sticking to your idealistic principles instead of just being a puppet.

Congratulations, Mr. Cut 'n' Paste, you're...



So, which is it? Which one are you?
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mitch Comestein wrote:
R. S. Refugee wrote:
Partly because some of the folks that I admire on this forum have sent me PMs thanking me for posting these and requesting me to keep it up.


Interesting.

A) What you're saying is that you have private meetings with individuals you admire, who are most likely more intelligent, powerful, and have more influence than you do. They ask you to use weapons that are given to you by other sources for your task. And in these secret meetings, they ask you to keep stirring up the pot and continuously launching into anti-Amrican and anti-Israel tirades because it furthers their own agendas.

Congratulations, Mr. Cut 'n' Paste, you're...



B) What you're saying is that you have private meetings with individuals you admire, who are most likely more intelligent, powerful, and are more well-spoken than you. In the end, you wind up looking like a moron for spouting off all the same old respun crap, and you end up taking all the crap for these puppeteers because you think that you are doing just work and you are sticking to your idealistic principles instead of just being a puppet.

Congratulations, Mr. Cut 'n' Paste, you're...



So, which is it? Which one are you?














As soon as I come across a commentary that answers that question, I'll be sure to post it. Very Happy Laughing Very Happy






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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reporting has ben very pro hezbollah. I haven't seen one media report supportive of israel. they all show dying lebanese civilians. I'm talking of BBC world.CNN has been a bit more balanced.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Independant = Left Wing Fox News.

Now to change the subject.





Well without a doubt the US ought not give 3 billion dollars a year to Israel and that if Israel is not being a friend to the US by asking for it / or accepting it.

Going on I think often the reason the US gives Israel diplomatic cover is cause the UN is far from an honest broker. Many would say that the UN subjects Israel to very severe criticism while it ignores the bad things that Israel's enemies do. Often the US is just voting it's conscious by votng against one sided- , disingenuous or spiteful UN resolutions. I dont' see that as diplomatic cover I see it as voting as the US sees fit based on the facts. Why is the UN biased against Israel? . There are several reasons for this such as Israel's enemies have oil , and because of third world nationalism, but I don't think those are the only reasons.

On another subject IMHO the main reason for Hizzbollah and Al Qaeda is cause mideast regimes and elites teach hate in order to distract their populations from the bad things that their governments and groups do.

Anyway : The US supportes South Korea against North Korea while spending around 10 Billion a year doing so. ( Time Magazine / Global Security)

The US supports Taiwan (at least to a certain extent ) against China.

The US supports Columbia against FARC.

I think in some ways the US support for Israel is similar to the above situations. And the other reason is that Israel's enemies are just not interested in peace with Israel.


I don't think the US ought to change or set policy just because those who would support Khomeni , Bin Laden , Saddam Hussein or Hizzbollah or Hamas would get mad. It is clear ( at least to me) what those groups are about and what they want/ demand isn't good. Furthermore I don't think the US would be able to satify Israel's enemies unless it boycotts Israel and sides with them.

Let me add that I think the the US also on occassion benefits from Israeli technology for instance intel centrino technology was developed in Israel.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone here yet mentioned how the good ol' Star of "David" is in fact an ancient MASONIC SYMBOL?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=star+of+david+masonic+symbol

Has not the case been made that the USA is most accurately described as a Judeo-Masonic state?

Not surprising there would be such strong unflinching ties to the modern day state of Israel is it?
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