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Israeli War Crimes
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Is Israel guilty of War Crimes?

Obviously, yes.

42%

[ 27 ]

No, they should be free to do as they see fit.

41%

[ 26 ]

Undecided ( this is just too tough to call )

15%

[ 10 ]

Total Votes : 63

Author

Message

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject:

pastis wrote:

Way to sidestep, racist.

And right back at you! Laughing

Afraid to address the question?
Because it totally kills your whole "you're a racist" accusation, doesn't it?
But anyway, why am I racist?
Show me one sentence in eveything I've ever posted here that indicates I'm racist.
BTW, disagreeing with you doesn't make me a racist.

Quote:

It's not an easy solution, but a fairly simple problem when you get down to it: Israel illegally occupies other countries' land and commits the lion's share of atrocities.

Sure, so the suicide bombings will stop if Israel goes back to '67 borders?
Or the 49 borders? 48 borders? How about 46?
Why did Yassir Arafat throw away the land for peace deal on the table at Camp David?
I don't know, maybe because he was a RACIST? RACIST? RACIST?
[you see, my slow-witted pastis, if you want to have bullshit label stick, you have to keep repeating it louder and LOUDER]

Quote:

That is a fact. They just destroyed Lebanon, not vice versa. Why is Lebanon hostile in the first place? Because (whether a racist like you will admit it or not) part of their territory is currently being occupied by Isreal.

Hmmm, I think you you're putting the cart before the horse. Maybe you need to pick up a newspaper once in a while.
Ever heard of Hezbollah?
I've never said the Isrealis don't have some answering to do, but reading your post makes it sound like Hezbollah was a quilting bee.

Quote:

There you go: simple.

Simple yes, correct, no. Sorry. Try again.

Quote:

Hey buddy, where were when you were needed at Camp David?
Probably drunk, hiding out somewhere nice and safe. Not much different from you I gather.

I doubt you were old enough to drink then.
I was living on a beautiful tropical island in the Caribbean at the time, thanks for asking.

Quote:

And why is it up to Hezbollah to fight for the Palestinians?

Isreal illegally occupies part of Lebanon. Jackass. Or did you even know/care about that? As for Palestine, maybe Lebanon just feels their pain. Beats me.

Again, you might want to crack open a history book or try reading a newspaper- you're making an ass of yourself and I don't have to do a damned thing!
So yes, it certainly does beat you.

Quote:

Why not the Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis?

Good question, why not? Nobody else does a damn thing.

History books.
Read them, learn, and escape your ignorance.

Quote:

who the *beep* drinks pastis anyway? People who can't get their hands on Arak?]

It's a southern French thing, probably influenced by Arabic culture far enough down the line (it's actually a leftover remnant of Absinthe since it became illegal). It's a great drink on a hot day, though a racist like you wouldn't understand.

I know all about it, my roomate in university was from Montpellier.
But you don't even know what Arak is, do you?
Obviously not!
And that makes your comment truly special! Laughing

I'll leave it for someone else to explain, mon vieux abruti.

Mod Edit: Removed personal attack.

igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject:

Bulsajo wrote:

Good point.

That's the catch-22: Nobody accuses Hezbollah of war crimes, because, well, they're terrorists!

Fact is too many people get caught up in the whole business of pointing accusatory fingers.

Claiming the "moral" highground Rolling Eyes

It's been said before, let's remind our readers again as it's a basic premise which bears repeating.

WAR

IS ( by its very nature )

A CRIME Twisted Evil

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject:

So you agree then, Hezbollah is guilty of war crimes? Deliberately targeting civilians, using civilians as shields, not identifying themselves as combatants, taking hostages? I'm surprised, I didn't think you were capable of showing such common sense. There's hope for you yet.

AbbeFaria

Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject:

pastis wrote:

AbbeFaria wrote:

Always they should talk peace, even though the peace table has never, ever, given them anything in return but a brief lull before they're attacked again. Terrorists are given a free pass to kill whoever their bombs can reach but Israel is expected to jump through every hoop, obey every rule, law and whim to secure their own borders. The hypocrisy boggles the mind.

Israel doesn't deserve anything in return because Israel is the one that has illegally occupied foreign land for decades, and continues to do so, not the other way around in any sense. Israel kills 30 time more innocent Arabs than vice versa, and the Palestinians are made to live like dogs. You are all the same, and don't give a damn about Arab blood and suffering. Period. And you know it.

Mod Edit: Removed personal attacks.

It was pointed out by someone else on here, in one of the at least a dozen threads on this issue, that the Palestinians didn't hold any legal right to that land. They were squating. I'm to lazy to look that up and verify it right now, but if that's true, the Israeli's were breaking no laws by accepting the deal from the U.N. for Israel. The land had been swapped around and traded about for centuries by whichever country in the region that had the power take it from the other. Whether the Palestinians had been living there for long time or not is irrelevent if they had no legal claims to it.

However, you are correct in one thing, I don't care about their suffereing as long as they think that blowing up children is an acceptable means of diplomacy. Then again, it's not even diplomacy since Hamas and Hezbollah have both stated, often and publicly, that no matter what, there is no peace with Israel. They want them all dead and driven in to the sea. All talking aside, there's just no way around that rather blunt and murderous fact. So yeah, I say kill the ***ures.

They only use cease-fires and concessions to regroup and rebuild. Whenever they've taken a sufficient pounding, they say "Okay, okay, we'll talk, we want peace," only long enough to pull themselves together and then attack again. And they usually blame Israel for violating the cease-fire, too. And people like you just eat it up.

�S�

Mode Edit: edited for language.

AbbeFaria

Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject:

Bulsajo wrote:

So you agree then, Hezbollah is guilty of war crimes?
Deliberately targeting civilians, using civilians as shields, not identifying themselves as combatants, taking hostages?

I'm surprised, I didn't think you were capable of showing such common sense. There's hope for you yet.

Don't get too excited, he'll probably bounce back with something saying how what Hezbollah and Palestine are doing is not really war, but fighting oppressors so therefore it's justified. The Jews invented war, all wars are because of the Jews and only Jews kill people in war. Every other "war" is really a fight for liberation from the evil Jew oppressors and doesn't count. Rolling Eyes

�S�

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

And right back at you!
Afraid to address the question?
Because it totally kills your whole "you're a racist" accusation, doesn't it?

I think using "racist" as a blanket term works considering we're talking about all non-Israeli ethnicities in the Middle East. But no matter, should I just call you a despicable "Muslim-hater" instead? Would that work better for you? It's obvious which side of the fence you're on.

Quote:

Sure, so the suicide bombings will stop if Israel goes back to '67 borders? Or the 49 borders? 48 borders? How about 46?

One thing's for sure: they sure as hell won't stop under the current arrangments. Israel has no right to illegally occupy other countries, suicide bombers nothwithstanding. All problems point back to Israel's illegal occupations and killings. Suicide bombings are basically just an extremely desperate afterthought.

Quote:

Hezbollah were formed after Israel invaded Lebanese territory. Their original purpose was to resist Israeli occupation.

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
And why is it up to Hezbollah to fight for the Palestinians?

Isreal illegally occupies part of Lebanon. Or did you even know/care about that? As for Palestine, maybe Lebanon just feels their pain. Beats me.

Again, you might want to crack open a history book or try reading a newspaper- you're making an ass of yourself and I don't have to do a damned thing!
So yes, it certainly does beat you.

Quote:
Quote:
Why not the Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis?

Good question, why not? Nobody else does a damn thing.

History books.
Read them, learn, and escape your ignorance.

Hezbollah cares a lot more about Palestinians and has closer ties to them than the Israelis do (Syria and Iran aside). They even work together. Other countries don't care enough (corrupt countries like Saudi Arabia). Palestinians are screwed over by lack of support worse than anyone. But you would never admit anything good about Hezbollah's agenda because you see them merely as terrorists, and do not empathize at all with their cause (which happens to share many similarities with Hamas who you no doubt also consider merely terrorists).

Quote:

I know all about it, my roomate in university was from Montpellier.
But you don't even know what Arak is, do you?
Obviously not!
And that makes your comment truly special!
I'll leave it for someone else to explain, mon vieux abruti.
.Mod Edit: removed personal attack.

I know what it is ass-hat, I've drank it. I prefer pastis, which is made in France, not the Arab world (though Arak is nice too). If you thought you were being funny or clever in any way, think again.
Mod Edit:Removed personal attacks

AbbeFaria

Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject:

pastis wrote:

Palestinians are screwed over by lack of support worse than anyone. But you would never admit anything good about Hezbollah's agenda because you see them merely as terrorists, and do not empathize at all with their cause (which happens to share many similarities with Hamas who you no doubt also consider merely terrorists).
Mod Edit: removed personal attack.

Not only were they screwed over by other countries, they were screwed over by their own leader. Yasser Arafat died a billionaire. All money stolen from his own people, who lived in poverty. It was a propoganda tool against the Israeli's. "Look how poor my people are, see what the Jews do to our women and children!" Most western nations have given aid to Palestine, so where is that money going? The Palestinians are certianly no better off for it. First it was Yasser Arafat, now it's Hamas. Both brutalize their own people in an effort to weaken the Israeli position. And lets also not forget the millions the Israeli's themselves have given to the Palestinian people. Money to try and get them standing on their own two feet. Hamas actually had the bllas to ask Israel for money when, as I said, Hamas vows the destruction of Israel. There is no peace with such people.

And if by a shared cause then you mean the death of every Israeli man, woman and child then no, I'm afraid I don't support them or sympathize with them.

�S�

Last edited by AbbeFaria on Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I don't care about their suffereing as long as they think that blowing up children is an acceptable means of diplomacy. Then again, it's not even diplomacy since Hamas and Hezbollah have both stated, often and publicly, that no matter what, there is no peace with Israel. They want them all dead and driven in to the sea. All talking aside, there's just no way around that rather blunt and murderous fact. So yeah, I say kill the ****res
Mod Edit: edited for language.

Wow, what a worthless person you are. So you would advocate murdering the governments of two oppressed Arab peoples (who voted for them) and completely ignore Israel's crimes, which happen to have killed more far more people? [sentence removed] Go look the word up and reflect deeply upon it, you'll see.

Mod Edit: removed personal attack.

AbbeFaria

Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject:

pastis wrote:

Quote:

Wow, what a worthless person you are. So you would advocate murdering the governments of two oppressed Arab peoples (who voted for them) and completely ignore Israel's crimes, which happen to have killed more far more people? [Removed sentence] Go look the word up and reflect deeply upon it, you'll see.
Mod Edit: removed personal attack.

Last I checked I hadn't declared war on an entire race. Are you saying I am a ***** because I say those who will not discuss peace and who continually try and commit genocide should be killed? Meanwhile, the ones who wish to carry out the atrocities are somehow heros because they were elected? That just makes the people who voted for them just as guilty as those in power trying to commit the genocide. Somehow it's a legitimat goal now, one that should be accepted by the world, to kill all Jews, just because they were elected. According to you, anyway. Are you high?

You completely ignore the point that their goal is to invade and destroy Israel. How can Israel have peace under those circumstances? Why is it acceptable to you for them to seek the death of millions, while Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself?

Mod Edit: edited for language.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Last I checked I hadn't declared war on an entire race. Are you saying I am a bigot because I say those who will not discuss peace and who continually try and commit genocide should be killed? Meanwhile, the ones who wish to carry out the atrocities are somehow heros because they were elected? That just makes the people who voted for them just as guilty as those in power trying to commit the genocide. Somehow it's a legitimat goal now, one that should be accepted by the world, to kill all Jews, just because they were elected. According to you, anyway. Are you high?

You're a bigot because not once have you recognized the atrocities committed by Isreal, which dwarf those of Hezbollah et al. You wanna talk about genocide, look at what's happened to the Palestinians and Gaza. Israel wants to control the whole area, they think the Palestinians (who you labeled as "squatters") would be better off dead. It's unbelievable how you make Israel out as the "good guy" just trying to "defend itself" from the hostile sub-human "squatters" all around (you make them out to be pests, or insects or something) when they've murdered far more innocents than vice versa. And take a god-damned look at what Israel has recently done to Lebanon, in addition to illegally occupying it for decades. Destoyed it. And you're accusing Hezbollah of atrocities?? You are definitely (and unapologetically) a bigot and from what I can gather from your posts, a terrible, callous person all around.

AbbeFaria

Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject:

pastis wrote:

Quote:

Abbefaria wrote:

You completely ignore the point that their goal is to invade and destroy Israel. How can Israel have peace under those circumstances? Why is it acceptable to you for them to seek the death of millions, while Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself?

Still waiting.

�S�

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:05 am Post subject:

Quote:

sorry forgot to answer the second part...

Israel holds all the cards, they have the weapons, the money, the support of the U.S. They can survive. The point is that Israel has an agenda too: to eventually take over the whole area. Isreal has invaded and destroyed it's neighbors enough times to prove it cannot be trusted. I don't think Hezbollah are stupid, nor do I think they would ever try to annihilate Israel. If they got back their territory and prisoners, they would have nothing more really to complain about (despite what they've said). Israel is in hostile territory, no doubt, but you can't blame the other countries, whose land Israel has stolen, for that. Anyway, just because Hezbollah is backed by Iran and Syria doesn't mean they can or would try to destroy Israel outright. At least I think that's a far more realistic assessment that saying Israel wants truly peace.

Bottom line is it's a huge dilemma, everyone knows that. But it's still mostly Israel's fault. Israel still commits the worst atrocities and kills the most people, occupies the most land. It may be just my opinion, but I think the Israelis are worse than the so-called terrorists. I think if Isreal actually withdrew completely, a real settlement could be made, even with Hamas and Hezbollah. But we'll probably never know for sure, because we all know Israel has no intention of ever doing so.

AbbeFaria

Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:44 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

Quote:

Where do they withdraw to? When the Oslo accords were signed, Israel agreed to withdraw to pre-67 borders. They offered up 97% of land taken after that war. Arafat was launching attacks at Israel before the ink was even dry.

Then there's this choice gem from the article I posted last week:

Quote:

The political Islamist danger will escalate a thousandfold if Iran, the epicentre of political Islam and Hezbollah's master, achieves its own invulnerability with nuclear weapons so that it, too, can wage its own rocket and other attacks against its many targets, starting with Israel, which Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has just reiterated must be annihilated and about which its former president and powerbroker Hashemi Rafsanjani spoke candidly in 2001.

"The use of even one nuclear bomb inside Israel will destroy everything," Rafsanjani said, whereas it would merely harm the Islamic world. "It is not irrational to contemplate such an eventuality."

Basically he's saying "Yeah, we'd get some bad press, but it would be better in the end." These are the people that you want Israel to negotiate with. Those who casually toss around the options of nukes as a real solution to the problem. Not even those who hate the U.S. as much as many do on this board can claim that they are so cavalier and warmongering as to casually drop in the reference "we could just nuke 'em."

The people you work so hard to defend are not rationale and not kind. Their ideology justifies any action to achieve their goals. They don't care how many people die in the process, least of all other Muslims.

�S�

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:02 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

Quote:

ROFL. Just when you think this board is full of nut jobs, someone new comes along and outdoes everyone else. Congratulations! You are so very wrong. [I don't want an actual discussion with you, I just wanted to snipe, thank you]

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:34 am Post subject:

Quote:

You are so very wrong. [I don't want an actual discussion with you, I just wanted to snipe, thank you]

Mod Edit: Removed entire post due to the fact it was all personal attacks.

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