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Confucian influence in Korea(still!!!)
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Does Confucianism still have too great an influence on Korean society?
Yes
76%
 76%  [ 19 ]
No
24%
 24%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 25

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basplar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Confucian influence in Korea(still!!!) Reply with quote

Lately, I've been reading a lot of articles about womens' rights and the education system in Korea in the "Korea Herald" newspaper. What amazes me is a lot of the problems that they talk about in the Herald articles (equal rights for woman, reforming the educational system, etc.), are still such problems here. I see it everyday in not only my workplace, but in Koreans everyday interactions. I realize that Confucianism has had a HUGE role in the development of the Korean language (ban-mal, jon-dae mal) and MANY other aspects of Korean society. That being said, I really think its time for Korea as a whole to move on, actually become modern, and stop this hierarchal, patriarchal system. First, Korean women need to be strong and stand up to men and say **** you to men that try to hold them back. Just yesterday there was an article in the Herald about this "glass ceiling" that so many Korean women see above them. Some examples of this "glass ceiling" being men who are less qualified being promoted before them and the almost TOTAL disregard for woman in management positions in most big business firms and government agencies in Korea. Also, woman hold only 13% of the seats in Korea's main legislative body, The National Assembly, and hold almost NO positions on important committees that handle the most important issues for Koreans. It's about time to see women walking through the streets burning their bras like they did in the U.S. in the 1960's. Women need to stand up for themselves and discard their concern for what men think of their actions. Second, the educational system in Korea (in elem., mid., high schools) is still a stronghold of Confucianism in Korea. I see it every day. Students are often discouraged from speaking about their ideas and are expected to just sit and listen (a.k.a.-the teacher-student relationship in Confucianism). This is NOT the most effective way to teach subjects such as language, art, and music because those subjects require participation and practice to acquire the information presented to them by the teacher. This is not the fault of the students, but rather a lot of the older teachers in Korea that are set in their ways and not open minded. Now, I think the more young teachers that filter into the educational system (and the more older teachers retire), the more this will change. If Koreans are going to claim that they have a "modern" culture, then it's about time they started acting like it (especially women.....BE STRONG WOMEN!!). I realize that things ARE changing here,...for the better, but it's still not fast enough to match the claims of having a "modern" culture.

Does anyone have thoughts on this matter?

Mod Edit: Edited for language.
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patriarchy /= confucianism
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beating a dead horse. Preaching to the choir. Wow, do you realize how much Korea has changed already?

Your comments seem well-intended, but they are also a bit patronizing. All the issues you mention also exist still in Western nations. And everyone on these forums is familiar with them if they ahve been here any time at all.

But let me give you a few examples of the changes in the last 10 - 15 years:

1. There was virtually no PDA.

2. You never saw the legs of midriffs of women.

3. The divorce rate was 5%. It is now 47%, largely due to women telling men to *beep* off, as you put it.

4. Virtually no woman expected to work after marriage. The number of working married women and working mothers are both rising steadily.

5. There has been a female leader of one of the two major political parties.

6. Teens didn't date.

7. Virtually no young, unmarried Korean lived alone. It was rare even for college students away from home.

8. 1993 was the first truly free election since the Korean War era.

9. Students now openly debate/complain about the rigidity in the educationbal system.

10. Students increasingly want to choose their majors and their universities. (They do not at this time.)

11. The marrying age was 24 - 28. It's now more like the thirties.

12. EVERYONE went home for Chusok. Not so much anymore, even among non-Christians.

13. The laws now allow a woman to have custody of children after divorce. Before it was at the father's discretion only.

14. They are trying to do away with the family registry as it discriminates against women.

So, don't be quite so quick to judge without first examining the processes of change already in motion.
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basplar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:27 am    Post subject: Good points Reply with quote

Quote:
So, don't be quite so quick to judge without first examining the processes of change already in motion.


EFLtrainer,

You're absolutely right that things HAVE changed dramatically in Korea in the past 10-15 years. There are a LOT of things that are changing for the better. I know that even 5-8 years ago, a Korean woman smoking a cigarette on the street might be slapped by an older person. I'm not trying to judge Korea or Koreans. I love a lot of things about this country and the people, it's just that Confucianism drives me NUTS. It's still got a stranglehold on Korean culture. My point is mainly that Korea still has a LOOOOONG way to go before it becomes a "modern" society as many Koreans claim(and on that note....so does my country, the U.S.[i.e.>still has the death penalty, drug laws are ridiculous, no universal health care, etc.]...hehe) But, there's STILL a lot of descrimination here against women(and foreigners[once again, still an issue in the U.S.]) Anyway...., I'm just curious about other people's thoughts on the matter. Hope to hear everyone's ideas.
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Moldy Rutabaga



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[....]

Last edited by Moldy Rutabaga on Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yo!Chingo



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFLtrainer wrote:


But let me give you a few examples of the changes in the last 10 - 15 years:


10. Students increasingly want to choose their majors and their universities. (They do not at this time.)


Are you seriously saying that even today Korean college students don't have the right to chose their own majors?!? Who choses it if not the student Shocked
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your score on the college entrance exam limits your choices of major.
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo!Chingo wrote:

Are you seriously saying that even today Korean college students don't have the right to chose their own majors?!? Who choses it if not the student Shocked


The parents..

in the case of boys at least, a son has to opt for a safe career-based choice. "Electrical engineering" seems to be the channel most little princes are cornered into. Only the girls (who don't matter) are allowed to follow their hearts and study something like music or fashion. After that they either get married and never use what they learned, or end up as unemployed idealists staffing hostess bars.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Junior wrote:
Yo!Chingo wrote:

Are you seriously saying that even today Korean college students don't have the right to chose their own majors?!? Who choses it if not the student Shocked


The parents..

in the case of boys at least, a son has to opt for a safe career-based choice. "Electrical engineering" seems to be the channel most little princes are cornered into. Only the girls (who don't matter) are allowed to follow their hearts and study something like music or fashion. After that they either get married and never use what they learned, or end up as unemployed idealists staffing hostess bars.



Or the girls get shipped off to a one- or two-year technical college programme while their parents save their won for a more expensive degree programme for oh-pah or nam-dong-saeng.
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Homer
Guest




PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Define "too great" and what you understand to be confucianism as it applies to Korea.

Then you might get relevant answers to your query....


Last edited by Homer on Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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numazawa



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Confucian influence in Korea(still!!!) Reply with quote

basplar wrote:
It's about time to see women walking through the streets burning their bras like they did in the U.S. in the 1960's.




Not quite a Perfect Storm but perhaps a Tempest in a B-Cup.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo!Chingo wrote:
EFLtrainer wrote:


But let me give you a few examples of the changes in the last 10 - 15 years:


10. Students increasingly want to choose their majors and their universities. (They do not at this time.)


Are you seriously saying that even today Korean college students don't have the right to chose their own majors?!? Who choses it if not the student Shocked


Hater Depot basically got it. Your score on the college entrance exam and your school grades determine which school you can go to and a small range of majors.

So, if you are a top 1 percent student you're going to go to Seoul University, whether you like it or not, and why in the world would you ever admit it wasn't your dream?

I must assume that among the top percentages, they are further segregated to determine majors. Top 10 percent of the top 1 percent get to be doctors, for example...

This is real, not Memorex.
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase



Joined: 04 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:
Define "too great" and what you understand to be confucianism as it applies to Korea.

Then you might get relevant answers to your query....


I guess the OP provides a good description of what Basplar regards as excessive Confucianism, so that should make a good starting point. Unless you are rushing to the defense of Confuciuanism ...
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seoulsucker



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Korea,
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basplar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Confucian influence, education, womens' rights Reply with quote

Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote:
Quote:

I guess the OP provides a good description of what Basplar regards as excessive Confucianism, so that should make a good starting point


Well, I do think, and there's very good evidence to support that, out of all of the countries that were influenced by Confucianism, Korea remains the largest stronghold of Confucian influence to this day. Just look around you. I look around my school and see it EVERY DAY!


Those dreaded college exams that I see my students preparing for really DO COMPLETELY influence their futures. They're so important to how their lives will unfold!!(unfortunately). They're so important, that on the test day, it's not unheard of for students who are running late to school to have police escorts to the front door of their school so they can get there on time(I know, I've seen it....guess everybody's figured out what kind of school I teach at by now). I really disagree with ONE TEST being soooo important in determining a persons future. Of course, if they don't do well, they can always wait a year, get behind their peers who are going to start university, and disappoint and embarass their families who will most likely shun them from that point onward. Unfortunate, but once again, I've seen it happen.

Junior Wrote:
Quote:

in the case of boys at least, a son has to opt for a safe career-based choice. "Electrical engineering" seems to be the channel most little princes are cornered into. Only the girls (who don't matter) are allowed to follow their hearts and study something like music or fashion. After that they either get married and never use what they learned, or end up as unemployed idealists staffing hostess bars.


For the most part, this is true, but there are always exceptions. I know very sucessful woman who are sucessful because they've had to fight EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to be where they are. But they're the exception, and not the rule!

Moldy Rutabaga wrote:
Quote:

I have mixed feelings. The culture of Confucianism has had some positive effects; it has encouraged respect shown for teachers and the elder (we benefit from that respect sometimes), and generally provides a stabilizing force against runaway individualism. It would be shame if Koreans threw away this concept of showing respect and replaced it with nothing.


I agree with some of this too. Confucianism does help with some aspects such as being respectful to elders and teachers. But, I think people should be respectful to everyone, not because they're older or have a higher "position" than them, but because it's the right thing to do. Respect shouldn't be an exclusive club reserved for those who just happened to have popped out of their mothers at an earlier date or for those who have a "higher" position. Respect is a 2-way street. If you give respect, you should recieve respect also. This 2-way street of respect is what Korea's Confucian respect system should be replaced with. I know....easier said than done, but I think it's possible.

Just my 2-cents. Folks, let's keep the posts rolling. I'm getting a good idea for other peoples' thoughts. Whaddya' think?

Peace
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