Korean Job Discussion Forums

[dbee]

[Junior]

[quote="dbee"]

[Kuros]

[daskalos]

The question came up a little bit ago in this thread as to why Israel isn't keen on inviting back all the Arab people who fled Israel, and all their descendents, and the question never got an honest answer.

It's a bit a sticky wicket for them. Being the only actual democracy in the region (or representative democracy, whatever), they can't afford to be outnumbered by people who, by and large, want them dead. So, paradoxical as it seems, the only thing that allows democracy to thrive in Israel is a Jewish majority.

It's easy to forget, 50, 60, a hundred years on, that what Zionism was and is about is to provide Jews a place to call their own so that they could avoid the world's long-standing tendency to want to kill them. I'm really not making this up. It's true. It didn't just start with the Nazis. Look it up if you don't believe me.

The way things went, and to the elation of many in the Zionist movement, that place turned out to be the land that had given birth to them as a phenomenon and in which they had maintained some presence for more than 3000 years. Not a majority presence for most of it, but a physical tie to bolster their spiritual one. (I do not, by way of full disclosure, care one little bit about anyone's spiritual/religious ties to any place.) Should the world have (by way of the U.N.) carved out a piece of conquered Ottoman territory for the Zionists? When you answer the question about the number of angels on the head of a pin, you can move on to this question, because there's just as much value in both questions. It's done and it can only be undone by more violence than Israel has ever unleashed on its enemies.

Is Israel guiltless in the conduct of its foreign policy since 1948? No. Is any nation? But they are quite literally fighting for their survival as a people, which gets defined in this case not on racial lines but religious ones. I'm afraid Golda Meir was right -- there's no such thing as a Palestinian People. The people who go by that ID never did so before the last half of the last century. There is such a thing as an Arab People, though, most of whom are Muslim. All Arab and non-Arab Muslims seem to have a stake in their brethren who used to live in Palestine (a term used by Turks for an administrative district, and used as a convenience by the rest of the world because calling it Israel before 1948 made as much sense as calling it Canaan), but the Muslim stake in the region and its Arabic people can't be compared, logically, to the Jews' stake. It would seem, actually, that the only stake of the Arab/Muslim world is political -- if their interests were the betterment of the lives of the Palestinians, there would not be so many millions of Palestinians living in squalid camps.

Sorry -- I got off topic. Israel cannot afford an Arab majority within its borders. It seems distasteful that this is so. It flies in the face of what we like to think of as our non-rascist world view. But Israel isn't willing to risk desctruction so that faux-liberal minded people can feel good about themselves, nor should they be expected to. People who think otherwise are looking at the past few decades and some well placed, pathos-inducing photos and ignoring the fact that life for the average Arab in Israel is worlds better than life for the average Arab outside of Israel. The Jews of Israel, in insisting on maintaining an electoral majority, are taking a somewhat longer view.

P.S. To whomever mentioned the relative, historical benevolence of Muslim conquerers, your point is moot. It matters not that 800 years ago, Christians and Jews were allowed to live second class lives in Muslims lands. What matters is that today, Muslim and Christian citizens in Israel are allowed utter freedom of religion. What Arab/Muslim states can we stack against Israel that allow a reciprocal freedom? There are Coptics in Egypt, who regularly are burned out of their churches. There's Lebanon, which isn't exactly a Muslim state, and which in any case hasn't had such an easy go of being multicultural these last decades. Any others?

Anyway, I can see just fine, thanks.

[Boodleheimer]

Coptic Christians are treated just fine in Egypt.

[Junior]

[dbee]

[Boodleheimer]

[quote="dbee"]

[Junior]

[quote="dbee"]

[Boodleheimer]

[Junior]

[dbee]

The facts are simple, but it basically comes down to this IMO...

Israel knew exactly what it was doing over half a century ago when it went into the land that is now called Israel, with guns ablazing. They made their choices, they murdered, they committed genocide, they pillage, burned and forced whole communities to leave land that they had occupied for 100's if not 1000's of years.

Now that all finished, and Israel has everything it could ask for ... having integrated a few token arabs and hearded the rest of them into camps. While at the same time stockpiling nukes, and warmongering abroad. Israel suddently wants to call time. They have everything that they could want, so now they'd like 'peace', but of course rather than peace, it's really an 'Israeli peace'.

The arabs on the other hand have lost everything. They're murdered daily, they've been tossed off their land and into the hell hole called the Gaza strip and West Bank.

But, paradoxically it turns out that the arabs have never been stronger. By dint of the fact that there really isn't anything more Israel can throw at them. They won't sign an Israeli peace, the Israeli's brought war, now war is what they're going to get in return.

Yes, I wish that the region achieved peace. But no, I don't feel in the least bit sorry for the Israelis. They dug their hole and now they're being forced to stand in it ... If Israel wants to blame anyone, then it should start by looking in the mirror IMO.

[Nowhere Man]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

gff

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

Israel's enemies sided with the Nazis and helped them carry out the holocaust.







In 1948 Israel's enemies refused to accept Israel then they carried out a war to kill all the Jews in Israel. They lost a war in which they intended the expel all the jews in the mideast.



Before 1967 the West Bank and Gaza were part of Egypt and Gaza






Israel's enemies have persecuted and continue to persecute their minority groups - far worse than anything Israel has done


Israel enemies persected and expelled their jewish populations so now there are almost no Jews most mideast nations.




In many mideat nations Arab Jews are not allowed to own land , collect debts , or have a job.




Israel accepted an offer where the Palestinian side would have gotten 95% of the West Bank and Gaza and would have also given 30 billion dollars in compensation for lost land . What do Israel enemies offer Arab Jews they persected ? Nothing.