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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Which is it today? |
| Piggy Banks |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
| Freddie Mercury |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
| Danish Cartoons |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| The Pope |
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31% |
[ 6 ] |
| Burger King Ice Cream Cones |
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31% |
[ 6 ] |
| St. George |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| The Flag of England |
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15% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:10 pm Post subject: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| So, which is it today? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| When did all Moslems start holding big town meetings where they all get offended by the same thing, and maybe more importantly, where do they hold these meetings? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| When did all Moslems start holding big town meetings where they all get offended by the same thing, and maybe more importantly, where do they hold these meetings? |
This may not be the image you want to paint to refute Pligganease. The first thought that jumped into my head was a full mosque, with an Imam going off on how America/Israel are responsible for their problems...
...call this a crude stereotype, but this thing exists in the Middle East. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| So, which is it today? |
People like your good self? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| So, which is it today? |
People like your good self? |
I don't think Pligganease is the problem. It probably has more to do with the threat of Western secular values to sever the community umma from their eternal ties with their ancestors. From the Pope's controversial speech:
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In the meantime, it must be observed that from this standpoint any attempt to maintain theology�s claim to be �scientific� would end up reducing Christianity to a mere fragment of its former self. But we must say more: it is man himself who ends up being reduced, for the specifically human questions about our origin and destiny, the questions raised by religion and ethics, then have no place within the purview of collective reason as defined by �science� and must thus be relegated to the realm of the subjective. The subject then decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective �conscience� becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical. In this way, though, ethics and religion lose their power to create a community and become a completely personal matter.
This is a dangerous state of affairs for humanity, as we see from the disturbing pathologies of religion and reason which necessarily erupt when reason is so reduced that questions of religion and ethics no longer concern it. Attempts to construct an ethic from the rules of evolution or from psychology and sociology, end up being simply inadequate. |
Islam is threatened and is lashing out. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| So, which is it today? |
People like your good self? |
I don't think Pligganease is the problem. It probably has more to do with the threat of Western secular values to sever the community umma from their eternal ties with their ancestors. From the Pope's controversial speech:
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In the meantime, it must be observed that from this standpoint any attempt to maintain theology�s claim to be �scientific� would end up reducing Christianity to a mere fragment of its former self. But we must say more: it is man himself who ends up being reduced, for the specifically human questions about our origin and destiny, the questions raised by religion and ethics, then have no place within the purview of collective reason as defined by �science� and must thus be relegated to the realm of the subjective. The subject then decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective �conscience� becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical. In this way, though, ethics and religion lose their power to create a community and become a completely personal matter.
This is a dangerous state of affairs for humanity, as we see from the disturbing pathologies of religion and reason which necessarily erupt when reason is so reduced that questions of religion and ethics no longer concern it. Attempts to construct an ethic from the rules of evolution or from psychology and sociology, end up being simply inadequate. |
Islam is threatened and is lashing out. |
Well, I wasn't trying to be literal there...but given his online persona with avatar of someone wrapped in the american flag, his tagline defensive and accusing on behalf of the U.S and the tone of his posts... arrogant, derisive and inflammatory. I'd say he's pretty representative of something that could be called "offensive".
The quote from the Pope's speech was pretty interesting. Makes me think that wtih science and subjectivity the west can tolerate losing the 'community' of religion, and finally relegate it to the cultural function of amusing fairy tales. Islamic communities don't seem to have any options outside religion. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| The Pope said that Islam is evil and violent and the extremists have done nothing but prove him right by threatening the Vatican with violence. Sickos. The Pope should not apologize as it seems he was right. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| The Pope said that Islam is evil and viokent and the extremists have done nothing but prove him right by threatening the Vatican with violence. Sickos. The Pope should not apologize as it seems he was right. |
That is not even what he said. Read my link above to the Pope's Controversial Speech. He was quoting someone else who was critical of the effect of Muhammad's revelation in the context of the siege of Constantinople. This 700-year-old Emperor was quoted as saying:
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| Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| ... and the tone of his posts... arrogant, derisive and inflammatory.... |
Read my sig. I bet that you're one of the "America Sucks" crowd. I guess if I were on here spouting the evils of the U.S. and the shame that should come with being an American citizen, I'd fit right in. 
The fact is, Muslims around the world get angry and offended anytime anyone says anything that criticizes their religion. Most westerners, and even Muslims in the U.S., appreciate the right to free speech that allows people to criticize each other. Many clerics in Islamic countries organize rallies and protests over the smallest stuff; the stuff that you and I take as common criticism. That's my point. Eveything on that poll is something that Muslims have been offended by in the recent past. Deal with it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| This may not be the image you want to paint to refute Pligganease. |
I take your point. My comment didn't really address the issue the way I meant it to. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
| ... and the tone of his posts... arrogant, derisive and inflammatory.... |
Read my sig. I bet that you're one of the "America Sucks" crowd. I guess if I were on here spouting the evils of the U.S. and the shame that should come with being an American citizen, I'd fit right in.
The fact is, Muslims around the world get angry and offended anytime anyone says anything that criticizes their religion. Most westerners, and even Muslims in the U.S., appreciate the right to free speech that allows people to criticize each other. Many clerics in Islamic countries organize rallies and protests over the smallest stuff; the stuff that you and I take as common criticism. That's my point. Eveything on that poll is something that Muslims have been offended by in the recent past. Deal with it. |
Now that you mention it... just what exactly is the point of your sig??
You're presupposing what people think? Some might call that arrogant. I don't know who these American haters are you've conjured up in your mind, but I think that most of them are people who want some accountability and responsibility from the biggest democracy in the world.
America can represent the best in the world, but it has its ugly side too. I try to keep a balanced view with that in mind.
It doesn't mean that I always disagree with what you've got to say, fundamental Muslims are incredibly intolerant, however I don't appreciate how you're combatting this by being intolerant in return, if anything you're just spreading the ignorance you say you hate... |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Today: Muslims offended by__________________ |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| It doesn't mean that I always disagree with what you've got to say, fundamental Muslims are incredibly intolerant, however I don't appreciate how you're combatting this by being intolerant in return, if anything you're just spreading the ignorance you say you hate... |
PC "malarky" as my grandmother used to say. Being fed up and calling Muslims on their rhetoric of true intolerance, and yes, maybe even poking fun at the absurdity of their temper tantrums, is not spreading ignorance or being intolerant in any way. At least not in as much as I'm familiar with the meanings of those two words. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck then is it speading ignorance and being intolerant to other water fowl to call it a duck?
I knew about the first few "offenders" in the poll, but hadn't heard about the British flag. The ice-cream cone was particularly retarded. But what happened there?
-S- |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| I don't know who these American haters are you've conjured up in your mind... |
Please...spare me this childish denial.
| happeningthang wrote: |
| ...but I think that most of them are people who want some accountability and responsibility from the biggest democracy in the world. |
No, that is not what "most of them" want. Judging from the likes of BLT Lawyer, Octavius, the Canadian who dropped out of grad school somewhere in the midwest, and several others here, most of them simply harbor the bitterest of feelings towards the United States. What you say "they want" here is merely their puerile pretext.
| happeningthang wrote: |
| ...[the United States] has its ugly side too. I try to keep a balanced view with that in mind. |
Couldn't agree with you more.
But if you do indeed try to keep a balanced perspective, then you can start by giving Plig the benefit of the doubt and, assuming his avatar and signature line are not responding to mere figments of his imagination, try to give him and other Americans who see what he sees a little credit (and I am not seeking your vote, just look at some of the posts that appear on this board from the perspective of an American who does not hate his or her country and tell me what you see)...
On the topic of the Pope: he should really try to stay out of this conflagration in the Middle East as he can not do much more than enflame matters that are already rather explosive. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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The Religion of Peace always responds with violence and mayhem. Bloodshed is their default mode.
Remember the recent Danish cartoon fiasco? From Sudan to Malaysia Danish flags were torched en masse. Where did they get all the Danish flags? Honest to god, if I wanted a Danish flag I wouldn't have a clue where to get one. But man, give the Religion of Peace credit. When it comes to burning things they are quick to find the appropriate combustables. Building things, mind you, that is quite another matter. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Plig:
What sort of discussion are you trying to start here, exactly? I could understand it if you asked "Why are Muslims offended by these things?" or "Why do Muslims get more offended by things than Christians do?" But the way you've framed the discussion is rather strange. Are you sincerely curious about whether Burger King will provoke more of a reaction than the Pope this week?
Last edited by On the other hand on Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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