|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Demophobe wrote: |
History will be quite unkind to Bush. He tried to be president, but completely and utterly failed in every aspect of the office. He has already exposed himself to be an immature, lying, reactionary puppet for some really evil people, namely Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz, who are the people really in control.
In a sense, one could easily feel sorry for Bush. He is obviously a mouthpiece for others and with his limited intellect, can easily be seen as a kind of victim. Perhaps at best, this is how history will see him; a pathetic rich kid who wants to be great, but is flawed to the core and makes all the wrong friends who lead him down the wrong path.
Either way, he won't be seen as the president he wants to be seen as, and hopefully, this will be clearly and definitively illustrated in his lifetime, so he can leave this world feeling a failure. Justice will prevail against people like Bush. |
Yeah, right.
He's a real stupid guy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| poker player wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| poker player wrote: |
| No I didn't. I figured it was just more of Clinton whining from the way everyone was posting here. But then this is a very left leaning board so I should have known it was just spin. Clinton was a joke and still is. |
Jeez man, where to start. This is a left-leaning board, so .. what is spin? The video? Do you even know what spin means?
Then, there's the whole thing about you forming an opinion without first viewing the material. Did you sell your doublewide in Missoura before coming out thar to Korealand? |
Truth hurts huh? |
No, your misuse of words hurts. You didn't point out what was spin. That's because posting a link to a video is not called spin, it's called posting a link to a video.
| Quote: |
| The double wide analogy sure cut me to the core, |
OUCH! Again with the misuse of words. Analogy? What analogy dude?
| Quote: |
| how will I ever recover? I wouldn't spend 3 seconds watching any video of Clinton. 8 years of him was more than enough. Go ahead, give me somemore labels-you're so good at it. |
Ok, how about bad English speaker? Automiseducationator? Um.. He Who Is Unable To Speak Coherently?
Waaaiiit a minute.. now it all makes sense. You're a supporter of Bush who refuses to hear any opposing viewpoints and can't form a coherent thought in English. BUSH is a Bush supporter who refuses to hear any opposing viewpoints and can't form a coherent thought in English.
Got it. Thanks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
and basically canned the poor geezer for events beyond his control.
|
I'm going to disagree a little bit (but I may be misreading your sentence).
I think Carter's defeat was the first instance in American history that I am aware of where a foreigner (the Ayatollah) manipulated the public into electing who he wanted. He was aided and abetted by the media, specifically ABC. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I think Carter's defeat was the first instance in American history that I am aware of where a foreigner (the Ayatollah) manipulated the public into electing who he wanted. He was aided and abetted by the media, specifically ABC. |
I agree with this. I have two memories from that time (I was 10):
1. Every night for the entire "hostage crisis", ABC's World News Tonight with Frank Reynolds started their broadcast like this: "This is Day 233". Oh? I thought it was Tuesday. By holding the 52 Americans, the Iranians basically shut down the Carter administration for 444 days, and the media wouldn't let the government focus on anything else. I'm sure, to this day, most Americans remember the "hostage crisis" far better than the eight-year Iran-Iraq war that followed which killed tens of thousands.
2. When did the Americans get released? THE SAME DAY that Reagan was sworn in. Even as a 10 year old, I thought the timing was bizarre, like, "why NOW?" Of course, in later years the Reagan administration never had any overt ties to the Iranian government, so any suspicions I had in June 1980 must have been unfounded. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Well according to Anne Coulter that's because Reagan threatened the Ayatollah with force, which Carter was too much of a liberal wiener to do. That seems to be what 'history' says about Reagan these days, anyway, and if history can be that 'kind' to Reagan what will they be saying about Bush 20 years from now? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
This interview came out just the French press leaked information concering the possible death of Bin Laden. Apparently, Fox is trying to spin the news so that people don't begin questioning why Bush didn't catch Bin Laden while he 'was' alive.
Clinton is one smart mofo. 
Listen to the last minute of the 3rd part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2-nILTO3dc&mode=related&search=
"They want us scared."
"They want another homeland security. " |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Lemon wrote: |
I have two memories from that time (I was 10):
1. Every night for the entire "hostage crisis", ABC's World News Tonight with Frank Reynolds started their broadcast like this: "This is Day 233". Oh? I thought it was Tuesday. By holding the 52 Americans, the Iranians basically shut down the Carter administration for 444 days, and the media wouldn't let the government focus on anything else. I'm sure, to this day, most Americans remember the "hostage crisis" far better than the eight-year Iran-Iraq war that followed which killed tens of thousands. |
Pretty sure the man's name was Ted Koppel instead of Frank Reynolds (I was a little older than 10 at the time) but everything else you say corresponds to to what I remember of the real world.
| Quote: |
| When did the Americans get released? THE SAME DAY that Reagan was sworn in. Even as a 10 year old, I thought the timing was bizarre, like, "why NOW?" Of course, in later years the Reagan administration never had any overt ties to the Iranian government, so any suspicions I had in June 1980 must have been unfounded. |
I was older than ten, and it seemed clear to me that Ayatollah Khomeini had decided he'd rather have a has-been Hollywood star living in Pennsylvania Avenue - someone he figured he could make deals with, as later actually happened via Oliver North - rather than a thoughtful and sincere Christian man who actually took a shot at rescuing the hostages.
Very much too bad those 3 'copters crashed in the desert. Wonder how much would be different now if they had succeeded in their goal.
There is no strange coincidence, as you seem to imply, and as many conspiracy theorists have done. Khomeini knew that all he had to was hold on to the hostages until one particular day, and he would gain enormous cred all around the region for having brought down an American president, one who was devoutly and publicly Christian. He did it, and it worked - he stayed in power until he died. That was his success.
Sorry, but there's nothing mysterious or odd about that. Just the way the world works. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Well according to Anne Coulter that's because Reagan threatened the Ayatollah with force, which Carter was too much of a liberal wiener to do. That seems to be what 'history' says about Reagan these days, anyway, and if history can be that 'kind' to Reagan what will they be saying about Bush 20 years from now? |
This is a good example of the drivel that happens when you get all your news in soundbytes from entertainers. And Coulter is nothing more than an entertainer.
The Iranian government did not take the hostages and was embarrassed in a sense. At some point the hostages had to be released or executed. The Ayatollah used them to his advantage to destroy a sitting president and didn't care who replaced him. It was politically advantageous to release them when he did because he had achieved his goal.
Twenty years is a lot too short a time to know what history will say about Reagan. He has not yet had to deal with the fact that he turned the US into the world's largest debtor nation. Those cows have not all come home to the barn yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boodleheimer
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As Henry Rollins said "Beating up on Bush is like punching out a 9 year old. Satisfying, but nothing you'd want to make a career out of". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Lemon wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I think Carter's defeat was the first instance in American history that I am aware of where a foreigner (the Ayatollah) manipulated the public into electing who he wanted. He was aided and abetted by the media, specifically ABC. |
I agree with this. I have two memories from that time (I was 10):
1. Every night for the entire "hostage crisis", ABC's World News Tonight with Frank Reynolds started their broadcast like this: "This is Day 233". Oh? I thought it was Tuesday. By holding the 52 Americans, the Iranians basically shut down the Carter administration for 444 days, and the media wouldn't let the government focus on anything else. I'm sure, to this day, most Americans remember the "hostage crisis" far better than the eight-year Iran-Iraq war that followed which killed tens of thousands.
2. When did the Americans get released? THE SAME DAY that Reagan was sworn in. Even as a 10 year old, I thought the timing was bizarre, like, "why NOW?" Of course, in later years the Reagan administration never had any overt ties to the Iranian government, so any suspicions I had in June 1980 must have been unfounded. |
You got it all wrong.
The harm Carter did America is just about off the charts. And Iran took advantage of his presence. They knew they had a weak sister in the White House. So it was OK to taunt and tease us at the time.
Reagan wasn't going to let that stuff fly. The Iranians knew this. So they cut a deal. In return for the hostages, we gave them weapons to kill Iraqis. We also gave the Iraqis weapons to kill Iranians.
We got what we wanted over there at the time: a stalemate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Pretty sure the man's name was Ted Koppel instead of Frank Reynolds (I was a little older than 10 at the time) but everything else you say corresponds to to what I remember of the real world. |
Here's where I turn painfully Comic Book Guy-ish, and insist it was Frank Reynolds. My memory is detailed and specific on weird little trivia like this, and Wikipedia supports me.
Frank Reynolds also anchored live coverage of the first shuttle launches, and was on the air the afternoon Reagan was shot. I mention this because the OP speaks of Clinton "blowing a gasket" on a television newsman, but have you ever seen a television newsman do the same thing? Frank Reynolds memorably did on that March 1981 afternoon Reagan was almost killed, turning beet red and berating the "newsroom" behind his desk on live television for giving him conflicting information about the status of Reagan's press secretary, who was one of the victims and also a close friend of Reynolds.
| Quote: |
| Very much too bad those 3 'copters crashed in the desert. Wonder how much would be different now if they had succeeded in their goal. |
Yes, that's one of those "what if" parlor games, where you try to predict how the world might have unfolded if a specific event had unfolded differently. What if that ballot in Florida had been a little easier for a few thousand old ladies to understand?
| otis wrote: |
| Reagan wasn't going to let that stuff fly. The Iranians knew this. So they cut a deal. In return for the hostages, we gave them weapons to kill Iraqis. We also gave the Iraqis weapons to kill Iranians. |
So, if they "cut him a deal", that happened before he was inaugurated on January 20th, 1981, because that was the day they were released. And if that's the case, how much earlier? A week? A month? Or the summer before the 1980 election? How long did those people sit in Tehran waiting for Reagan to take office? And it's not too big a jump from that theory to the "conspiracy" one Bobster mentions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
What? You never heard of the arms for hostages scandal?
It broke in the late 80's.
Ollie North ring a bell? Senate Committe, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| otis wrote: |
What? You never heard of the arms for hostages scandal?
It broke in the late 80's.
Ollie North ring a bell? Senate Committe, etc. |
Wrong hostages. Those hostages allegedly traded for weapons were captured in the early 80s in Lebanon by Iran-supported Hezbollah. Hey, who's the American here?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Just watched the interview again, and, frankly, if that's blowing a gasket then it wasn't much of a gasket. He just firmly defended himself, as he was forced to do. It's hardly like that fox news guy yelling as his interviewee to "shut up" or Anne Coulter unclipping her mic and walking off alive interveiw because she wasn't getting enough talking time... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
