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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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 Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: Mideast Mess and Israel's right to Exist |
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"Israel and Jerusalem Facts"
>
> Nation and Jerusalem
> Israel was a country at 1312BC - 2000 years before
> Islam even existed. Arab refugees in Israel started
> to identify themselves as Palestinians around 1967 -
> two decades after the modern Israeli country was
> established.
>
> After conquering the country in 1272BC, the Jews
> controlled it for a thousand years and had a
> continues presence in it for 3,300 years.
>
> The only Arab control ever started at 635BC and
> lasted for 22 years.
>
> For over 3,300 years Jerusalem was the Jewish
> capitol. Jerusalem was never the capitol of any
> Arab or Muslim nation. Even Jordan, when conquering
> Jerusalem, did not make it into their capital, and
> Arab
> leaders did not visit it.
>
> Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible
> and not even once in the Koran. King David
> established
> Jerusalem, Mohammed has never visited it.
>
> Jews prays facing towards Jerusalem, Muslims pray
> facing towards Mecca. If they are located between
> Jerusalem and Mecca, their faces are to Mecca and
> their behinds are "looking" towards Jerusalem.
>
> Jewish and Arab refugees:
> In 1948 Arab leaders encouraged Arab refugees to
> leave Israel, promising to purge Israel from Jews.
> 68% of the refugees ran away without ever seeing
> an Israeli soldier.
>
> Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim
> countries had to flee as the result of violence and
> pogroms. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948,
> while close to a million Jews were forced to leave
> the Muslim countries.
>
> In spite of the vast territories at their disposal,
> Arab
> refugees were deliberately prevented from
> assimilating into their host countries. Of 100
> million
> refugees following World War 2, they are the only
> group to have never integrated with their
> coreligionists.
> Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab
> lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger
> than
> New Jersey.
>
> The Israeli-Arab conflict
> There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting
> Palestine.
> There is only one country in the world that is
> Jewish.
>
> The Arabs initiated all 5 past wars and lost. Israel
> defended itself and won every time. The Fatah treaty
> still demands the destruction of Israel, even today.
> Israel have given the Palestinians autonomy over
> most of the west bank and gave them weapons.
> They later used these very weapons to harm Israeli
> civilians.
>
> During the time Jordan controlled Israel, holy
> Jewish
> places were robed and destroyed and Jewish people
> were denied access. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim
> and Christian holy sites are accessible to all
> faiths.
>
> Israel and the Arabs in the UN
> Out of 175 decisions of the Security Council before
> 1990, 97 were against Israel.
>
> Out of 690 decision of the general assembly before
> 1990, 429 were against Israel.
>
> The UN was silent when 58 synagogues were
> destroyed in Jerusalem by the Jordanians.
>
> The UN remained silent while Jordan systematically
> desecrated an ancient Jewish cemetery on the mount
> of olives, and it remained silent when Jordan
> enforced
> apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the
> temple mount and western wall.
>
> We live in trying times.
> We have to ask ourselves what is our part in this
> and what we believe in. You don't have to take
> sides.
> Israel is not always right, but it's not always
> wrong
> either. it's not always guilty, it's not always to
> be
> blamed. Next time you see a one-sided report on the
> news, please remember that people get hurt on both
> sides and you don't always hear about it.
>
> Many times the press choose to enhance the suffering
> of one side on the expense of the other, and usually
> Israel is portrayed as "the big bad" even if in fact
> it is
> just one small country of six million people, that
> has
> been fighting for it's life since day one, against
> hundreds of millions of enemies.
>
> All we ever wanted is to live in peace, but when we
> don't have a choice, we fight back, because we don't
> have anywhere else to go. You would have done
> the same thing. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Mideast Mess and Israel's right to Exist |
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| Kiddirts wrote: |
> The only Arab control ever started at 635BC and
> lasted for 22 years. |
 This is just a tad inaccurate.
| Quote: |
> All we ever wanted is to live in peace, but when we
> don't have a choice, we fight back, because we don't
> have anywhere else to go. You would have done
> the same thing. |
awww, pooor israel. Could it BE any cornier? I think not.
Thanks for cutting and pasting an e-mail that was fwd'd to you. |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| hey you're welcome, I hope you learned something. On the Arab control, what was the date that you had? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: |
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638 AD-1099 AD
1244- 1517
1948-1967
just a slight difference there.
wikipedia
In addition, it was ruled by Muslims from 638 until 1917, except for the 145 years the Christians controlled it during the Crusades. |
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Islamic reality: ANY THING THAT IS ( or was) OURS IS OURS( this includes SPAIN). Anything else WE CAN TAKE. |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| your dates are wrong...especially the 1948-present. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
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how are they wrong?
So Jordan didn't control Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967?? Then who did? Even the writing you posted says Jordan "conquered Jerusalem."
Please do elaborate.
It was ARAB control that was stated in your little e-mail piece, not Palestinian. |
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Atassi
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: 평택
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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ridiculous propoganda....I'll just touch on a few things:
| Quote: |
Arab refugees in Israel started
> to identify themselves as Palestinians around 1967 -
> two decades after the modern Israeli country was
> established. |
But they lived there for like 10 centuries or more. You could say that they are more Jewish than Jews, since they are the descendants of the Jewish Christians. They were Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Palestinians by the way.
| Quote: |
> After conquering the country in 1272BC, the Jews
> controlled it for a thousand years and had a
> continues presence in it for 3,300 years. |
While the Crusaders were there? Sorry, but only the Muslims allowed them to live. The Crusaders killed everyone, even Christians.
| Quote: |
> For over 3,300 years Jerusalem was the Jewish
> capitol. Jerusalem was never the capitol of any
> Arab or Muslim nation. Even Jordan, when conquering
> Jerusalem, did not make it into their capital, and
> Arab
> leaders did not visit it. |
Stupid. Jerusalem is one of the three holy sites in Islam. Why should it be the capital? The Jews had a presence so it was their capital?
| Quote: |
> Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible
> and not even once in the Koran. King David
> established
> Jerusalem, Mohammed has never visited it. |
Oh but wrong again.
| Quote: |
> Jews prays facing towards Jerusalem, Muslims pray
> facing towards Mecca. If they are located between
> Jerusalem and Mecca, their faces are to Mecca and
> their behinds are "looking" towards Jerusalem. |
During early Islam, Muslims prayed facing Jerusalem. Mecca was occupied by idol-worshippers. But that changed. After all, the Kaaba in Mecca was built by Abraham and Ishmael.
| Quote: |
> Jewish and Arab refugees:
> In 1948 Arab leaders encouraged Arab refugees to
> leave Israel, promising to purge Israel from Jews.
> 68% of the refugees ran away without ever seeing
> an Israeli soldier. |
Some Israelis were the first terrorists there. They scared the people off. It's documented.
| Quote: |
> In spite of the vast territories at their disposal,
> Arab
> refugees were deliberately prevented from
> assimilating into their host countries. Of 100
> million
> refugees following World War 2, they are the only
> group to have never integrated with their
> coreligionists.
> Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab
> lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger
> than
> New Jersey. |
So it's okay then to drive people away from there homes and livelihoods with the clothes on their backs. I see  I guess Arab blood is cheap after all.
| Quote: |
> The Israeli-Arab conflict
> There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting
> Palestine.
> There is only one country in the world that is
> Jewish. |
Were the Jews mistreated? By who exactly? Not the Palestinians.
| Quote: |
> The Arabs initiated all 5 past wars and lost. Israel
> defended itself and won every time. The Fatah treaty
> still demands the destruction of Israel, even today.
> Israel have given the Palestinians autonomy over
> most of the west bank and gave them weapons.
> They later used these very weapons to harm Israeli
> civilians. |
Funny how the aggressors become the "defenders". Why do you ignore that there are a gazillion UN amendments regarding human rights issues that Israel has ignored. Why are the strong portrayed here as being threatened?
| Quote: |
> During the time Jordan controlled Israel, holy
> Jewish
> places were robed and destroyed and Jewish people
> were denied access. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim
> and Christian holy sites are accessible to all
> faiths. |
BS....why don't you get the real facts. I agree it's bad when something is looted, but this is ridiculous. Read Chomsky. He was a peaceful settler there before other Zionists started the war.
| Quote: |
> Israel and the Arabs in the UN
> Out of 175 decisions of the Security Council before
> 1990, 97 were against Israel.
>
> Out of 690 decision of the general assembly before
> 1990, 429 were against Israel. |
Umm, were they not deserved?
| Quote: |
> The UN was silent when 58 synagogues were
> destroyed in Jerusalem by the Jordanians.
>
> The UN remained silent while Jordan systematically
> desecrated an ancient Jewish cemetery on the mount
> of olives, and it remained silent when Jordan
> enforced
> apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the
> temple mount and western wall. |
LOL, so now it's okay that Israel is an apartheid state, because Jordan did it first? Were those synagogues that were destroyed built on stolen land or something? This isn't a normal occurence.
| Quote: |
You don't have to take
> sides. |
You certainly have.
| Quote: |
> Israel is not always right, but it's not always
> wrong
> either. it's not always guilty, it's not always to
> be
> blamed. Next time you see a one-sided report on the
> news, please remember that people get hurt on both
> sides and you don't always hear about it. |
Next time you see a one-sided message like this, please remember that people get hurt on both sides, and you usually don't hear about it.  The palestinians have suffered under apartheid for too long, and they need help. Ask Israel to honor the decision of the UN to allow right of return for Palestinians.
| Quote: |
> Many times the press choose to enhance the suffering
> of one side on the expense of the other, and usually
> Israel is portrayed as "the big bad" even if in fact
> it is
> just one small country of six million people, that
> has
> been fighting for it's life since day one, against
> hundreds of millions of enemies. |
Many times the press choose to enhance the suffering of one side on the expense of the other, and usually Palestinians are portrayed as "the big bad" even if in fact it is just a bunch of poor refugees packed close together who have been persistently mistreated by the country they live in.
| Quote: |
> All we ever wanted is to live in peace, but when we
> don't have a choice, we fight back, because we don't
> have anywhere else to go. You would have done
> the same thing. |
I would have stolen my country from Germany. Or moved to Palestine to live peacefully. Not the same thing.
Is this supposed to be a balanced message? Pathetic |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Atassi
| Quote: |
| Were the Jews mistreated? By who exactly? Not the Palestinians. |
Atassi
| Quote: |
| Funny how the aggressors become the "defenders". Why do you ignore that there are a gazillion UN amendments regarding human rights issues that Israel has ignored. Why are the strong portrayed here as being threatened? |
what UN resolutions are you taking about?
In 1948 Israel accepted the UN resolution the other side didn't .
1967 war was a defensive war.
Atassi
| Quote: |
| BS....why don't you get the real facts. I agree it's bad when something is looted, but this is ridiculous. Read Chomsky. He was a peaceful settler there before other Zionists started the war. |
chomesky is a moonbat left winger . What are you talking about?
Atassi
| Quote: |
| Umm, were they not deserved? |
many times not. and why haven't there been resolutions against Israels' enemies when they do worse?
Atassi
| Quote: |
LOL, so now it's okay that Israel is an apartheid state, |
israels ememies are apartheid states, not only that they are fascist states.
there is a good reason for Israel now. Cause Bathists , Khomeni supporters and Bin Laden followers are all fascist bigots who can't be trusted to govern fairly or protect their minorities.
What do they do to the Kurds and the Bahis?
Shame on them and their supporters in the west.
| Quote: |
| You certainly have. |
so have you.
Atassi
| Quote: |
| Next time you see a one-sided message like this, please remember that people get hurt on both sides, and you usually don't hear about it. The palestinians have suffered under apartheid for too long, and they need help. Ask Israel to honor the decision of the UN to allow right of return for Palestinians. |
waht UN decision. UN 194 was passed in the general assembly .General assemby resolutions have no legal authority.
Israel has offered to compensate the Palestinian side and give them right of return to the west bank and Gaza.
Besides there were Jews in the that area and the Palestinian side tried to ethnically cleanse them in 1948.
Atassi
| Quote: |
| Many times the press choose to enhance the suffering of one side on the expense of the other, and usually Palestinians are portrayed as "the big bad" even if in fact it is just a bunch of poor refugees packed close together who have been persistently mistreated by the country they live in. |
The west bank and Gaza could be bult up. they are under miltary occupation because there is a war going on.
Atassi
| Quote: |
| I would have stolen my country from Germany. Or moved to Palestine to live peacefully. Not the same thing. |
didn't the Palestinian side try to expel the Jews who were living there in 1948?
Didn't Israels enemies persecute their arab jews?
and unlike Israel they offer no compensation.
Atassi
| Quote: |
| Is this supposed to be a balanced message? Pathetic |
You should talk
The real problem in the mideast is bathism , khomenism , Bin Ladenism all the other sinister hateful ideologies.
jews in the mideast need protection from those and similar ideologies |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiddirts wrote: |
| your dates are wrong...especially the 1948-present. |
still waiting for the "right" dates... |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, I'm sorry...I forgot about you. Isn't 1948 the year of Israel's independence? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Mideast Mess and Israel's right to Exist |
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| Kiddirts wrote: |
"Israel and Jerusalem Facts"
>
> Nation and Jerusalem
> Israel was a country at 1312BC - 2000 years before
> Islam even existed. Arab refugees in Israel started
> to identify themselves as Palestinians around 1967 -
> two decades after the modern Israeli country was
> established.
>
> After conquering the country in 1272BC, the Jews
> controlled it for a thousand years and had a
> continues presence in it for 3,300 years.
>
> The only Arab control ever started at 635BC and
> lasted for 22 years.
>
> For over 3,300 years Jerusalem was the Jewish
> capitol. Jerusalem was never the capitol of any
> Arab or Muslim nation. Even Jordan, when conquering
> Jerusalem, did not make it into their capital, and
> Arab
> leaders did not visit it.
>
> Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible
> and not even once in the Koran. King David
> established
> Jerusalem, Mohammed has never visited it.
>
> Jews prays facing towards Jerusalem, Muslims pray
> facing towards Mecca. If they are located between
> Jerusalem and Mecca, their faces are to Mecca and
> their behinds are "looking" towards Jerusalem.
>
> Jewish and Arab refugees:
> In 1948 Arab leaders encouraged Arab refugees to
> leave Israel, promising to purge Israel from Jews.
> 68% of the refugees ran away without ever seeing
> an Israeli soldier.
>
> Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim
> countries had to flee as the result of violence and
> pogroms. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948,
> while close to a million Jews were forced to leave
> the Muslim countries.
>
> In spite of the vast territories at their disposal,
> Arab
> refugees were deliberately prevented from
> assimilating into their host countries. Of 100
> million
> refugees following World War 2, they are the only
> group to have never integrated with their
> coreligionists.
> Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab
> lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger
> than
> New Jersey.
>
> The Israeli-Arab conflict
> There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting
> Palestine.
> There is only one country in the world that is
> Jewish.
>
> The Arabs initiated all 5 past wars and lost. Israel
> defended itself and won every time. The Fatah treaty
> still demands the destruction of Israel, even today.
> Israel have given the Palestinians autonomy over
> most of the west bank and gave them weapons.
> They later used these very weapons to harm Israeli
> civilians.
>
> During the time Jordan controlled Israel, holy
> Jewish
> places were robed and destroyed and Jewish people
> were denied access. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim
> and Christian holy sites are accessible to all
> faiths.
>
> Israel and the Arabs in the UN
> Out of 175 decisions of the Security Council before
> 1990, 97 were against Israel.
>
> Out of 690 decision of the general assembly before
> 1990, 429 were against Israel.
>
> The UN was silent when 58 synagogues were
> destroyed in Jerusalem by the Jordanians.
>
> The UN remained silent while Jordan systematically
> desecrated an ancient Jewish cemetery on the mount
> of olives, and it remained silent when Jordan
> enforced
> apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the
> temple mount and western wall.
>
> We live in trying times.
> We have to ask ourselves what is our part in this
> and what we believe in. You don't have to take
> sides.
> Israel is not always right, but it's not always
> wrong
> either. it's not always guilty, it's not always to
> be
> blamed. Next time you see a one-sided report on the
> news, please remember that people get hurt on both
> sides and you don't always hear about it.
>
> Many times the press choose to enhance the suffering
> of one side on the expense of the other, and usually
> Israel is portrayed as "the big bad" even if in fact
> it is
> just one small country of six million people, that
> has
> been fighting for it's life since day one, against
> hundreds of millions of enemies.
>
> All we ever wanted is to live in peace, but when we
> don't have a choice, we fight back, because we don't
> have anywhere else to go. You would have done
> the same thing. |
Well now we have definite proof that America should have more troops in Iraq. All of you proud and patriotic Yanks go write your parliament or congress or whatever it's called and request that America have all of its manoeuvre brigades in, preparing for, or recovering from Iraq. America must defend Israel's right to exist at all costs and needs to defeat Saddamites and others who wish Israel would just go away. More Americans dying in uniform in Iraq than died in 9/11 is a very small price to pay for Israel's security, and after reading the argument so eloquently made above how could anyone argue that 300 million people on the other side of the world shouldn't be foremost concerned with Israel's regional dominance? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| foremost concerned with Israel's regional dominance? |
why Israel isn't out to destroy the mideast. On the other hand Israels enemies are interested in destroying Israel. But you have to understand Yu Bum Suk is a Hizzbollah supporter whether he says so or not.
| Quote: |
| 9/11 is a very small price to pay for Israel's security |
9-11 happened cause Al Qaeda fights for the Caliphate. The anti war movement doesn't understand why Al Qaeda fights. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Mideast Mess and Israel's right to Exist |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
America must defend Israel's right to exist at all costs and needs to defeat Saddamites and others |
The iraq war was never about Israel. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Kiddirts wrote: |
| Oh, I'm sorry...I forgot about you. Isn't 1948 the year of Israel's independence? |
yes. I thought that one bit was about Jerusalem, which wasn't a part of Israel at "independence". But if it means pre-1967 israel, then yeah, obviously that would be correct.
| Quote: |
The iraq war was never about Israel. |
one time that i'll agree with you. |
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