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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The girls at McDonald's don't get ddongchimmed and we do, they can shut up about being alienated from their labors anytime they feel free to. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ody wrote: |
| Demophobe wrote: |
| Otis prods the left.... |
EXACTLY.
bigbird, don't waste your time. otis is a total troll. -and (sadly) a superficial one at that. |
Jeeze, Ody. I'm sorry. Not everyone can be as deep and thoughtful as you. I'll try harder. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| nasigoreng wrote: |
| if Chomsky's ideas were put into practice in S.Korea, would individuals be able to accumulate enough capital to open English academies and pay native speakers +2.000.000 won/ month? |
Which ideas? Generative grammar? You might need to be more specific. This might involve actually learning about what Chomsky's ideas are.
You can do it, tiger! Tell us which ideas you mean! |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
| Ody wrote: |
| Demophobe wrote: |
| Otis prods the left.... |
EXACTLY.
bigbird, don't waste your time. otis is a total troll. -and (sadly) a superficial one at that. |
Jeeze, Ody. I'm sorry. Not everyone can be as deep and thoughtful as you. I'll try harder. |
i know.
but hey, if shallow people didn't exist, i wouldn't seem so "deep."  |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Ody wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
| Ody wrote: |
| Demophobe wrote: |
| Otis prods the left.... |
EXACTLY.
bigbird, don't waste your time. otis is a total troll. -and (sadly) a superficial one at that. |
Jeeze, Ody. I'm sorry. Not everyone can be as deep and thoughtful as you. I'll try harder. |
i know.
but hey, if shallow people didn't exist, i wouldn't seem so "deep." |
Whatever happened to PK? Is he in jail or the mental institution?
Remember when you used to work for him?
Now he was deep. |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| nasigoreng wrote: |
| if Chomsky's ideas were put into practice in S.Korea, would individuals be able to accumulate enough capital to open English academies and pay native speakers +2.000.000 won/ month? |
Which ideas? Generative grammar? You might need to be more specific. This might involve actually learning about what Chomsky's ideas are.
You can do it, tiger! Tell us which ideas you mean! |
from wikipedia [noam chomsky]
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| Chomsky describes himself as a libertarian socialist and a sympathizer of anarcho-syndicalism |
from wikipedia [libertarian socialism]
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Libertarian socialism includes a group of political philosophies that aims to create a society without political, economic or social hierarchies - a society within which individuals freely co-operate together as equals.
This would be achieved through the abolition of private property, thereby restoring direct control of the means of production and resources to the working class and other unpropertied classes. |
no accumulation of personal wealth and no entrepreneurism. No individually owned hog-wons and no rich Korean students to pay for our salaries.
libertarian socialism cont'd
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to an anarchist, objects have a value associated with them based upon the amount of labor put in to them. As such, the only way profit can be produced is by paying workers less than this value or by charging consumers more than this value. |
I bet your hog-won secretary does more work than you on any given day yet her salary is probably 1/2 yours. Yet, ChopChaeJoe, the greedy capitalist wants more. why? what makes him so special? oh, here it is:
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Capitalists, on the other hand, believe that an object's value is determined by supply and demand.
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there is a high-demand for native English speakers and our high salaries reflect that demand. Compare the number of native English speakers in S.Korea with the number in Cuba.
Universal Grammar my a$$, Chomsky obvioulsy never taught in a korean hog-won. (  sarcasm ) |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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So what are you arguing here Nasigoreng?? You don't think the Korean secretary doing double the work deserves a more equitable wage?
You base your criticism against these ideas as though everyone is selfishly motivated, and thinks that the world's just fine as it is with one third of the world living comfortably while a majority are empoverished. You're living in Indonesia aren't you?? Look around you, you're living in a poor country. Would you rather improve these people's lives or protect your own cushy teaching job?
While you're answering that it's also worth considering that Libertarian Socialism is just one of Chomsky's ideas and is generally not considered to be his most prominent. Do you have anything else to add besides the one cherry picked idea you could muster an argument for? |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
"I choose to live in what I think is the greatest country in the world" - CNN interview |
That transcript illustrates precisely what I despise about modern American news: They've got Chomsky on - a bright guy, agree with him or not - and he's barely able to get a word in because they've also put Bill Bennett on alongside him, whose sole function is to interrupt and shout Chomsky down before he can finish a sentence. And the host is as useless as breasts on a mouse, and seems to encourage the shout-down of the guest. Would it have been so bad if Chomsky had been allowed to talk - uninterrupted - and THEN brought on Bennett afterward to give "the other side"?
It's always like that on cable news shows - no one ever makes insightful, thoughtful comments. Instead, it's all about who can outshout the other. It's the same with badly-moderated political debates.
And no one, ever, EVER, says on cable news shows, "hey, good point, I never thought of it that way." Nor does anyone in Dave's current events forum, which seems to mirror that style of "debate". |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
You base your criticism against these ideas as though everyone is selfishly motivated, and thinks that the world's just fine as it is with one third of the world living comfortably while a majority are empoverished.
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and you're not selfishly motivated? Prove that you are not selfish! why are you teaching in S.Korea and not some 3rd world hell-hole like Indonesia? The desire to to prosper is a fundamental human drive. A capitalist market system rewards innovation and creativity allowing people to prosper according to their abilities/gifts. Obviously being able to speak your native language isn't much, but look how far you've come with only that going for you  isn't that great?
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You're living in Indonesia aren't you?? |
yes
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| Look around you, you're living in a poor country. |
i've noticed: The leper crawling and begging along the street made it clear
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Would you rather improve these people's lives or protect your own cushy teaching job?
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I can't improve their lives. I could give them some money but that will only feed them for one day. That won't fix the corruption and bring jobs to indonesia. That won't fix the traffic, the environment, the garbage, the lack of education, it won't inspire an elitist indonesian in an SUV to do his share. The sad thing is... most foreigners are way more generous towards the poor here than the locals who are wealthy... not just wealthy... filthy rich .
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While you're answering that it's also worth considering that Libertarian Socialism is just one of Chomsky's ideas and is generally not considered to be his most prominent. |
Be that as it may: it's b.s. . What country in the world... excuse me... .what successful country would say there is no difference between the value of the work done by a janitor, a waiter, and a doctor; that neither one has more value to society than the other? And if you're not going to be compensated fairly for the years of training learning how to be a doctor, why would anyone choose that professon when they could be just as prosperous as a truck driver?
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| Do you have anything else to add besides the one cherry picked idea you could muster an argument for? |
yes... it's so fitting you have a lemming for an avatar.
ps. i gave US$200 for tsunami aid last year.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/HI20Ae01.html |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't say that I, or anyone else, does not act selfishly. I made the point that your argument assumes EVERYONE is selfish and that is the only thing motivating people. Yes, people do act in their best interests, but that isn't the be all and end of all of human motivations. Also, I didn't say, or try to imply that you're selfish. Your donations, and your work in Indo are commendable. Good on you.
Obviously, I'm teaching in Korea because I can make more money, but like you giving the Indonesian poor your money, me working in a "third world hell hole", as you put it, isn't going to change the world.
It seems to me that those who are working towards ideas like libertarian socialism are trying to change the world for the better in ways that will be more effective than band aid solutions like one off donations. Also for you to run a critique of libertarian socialism (LS), when the proponents themselves avoid speculation on what form a LS society might take is to miss the point, and leads me to think that you don't know what you're arguing against. Being dismissive isn't the same as providing an argument.
And while we're on that again, even with my avatar taken into account, can you do better than dismiss Chomsky and his ideas based on this one notion that you're misrepresenting and misunderstanding? |
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