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yodanole
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: La Florida
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Never mind these guys. Remember Humphrey Bogart. |
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rothkowitz
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Goodness.I'm saying the coffee shop scene was a silly one,not that Pacino or DeNiro are poor actors.
They're not presenting convincing behaviour in that scene.They're just following a self-indulgent,w-anky part of the script.
As for Michael Mann's latest film,Miami Vice,I didn't see it as it had Colin Farrell.I knew I wouldn't have been able to see him without that wig he had on in Alexander. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| rothkowitz wrote: |
Goodness.I'm saying the coffee shop scene was a silly one,not that Pacino or DeNiro are poor actors.
They're not presenting convincing behaviour in that scene.They're just following a self-indulgent,w-anky part of the script.
As for Michael Mann's latest film,Miami Vice,I didn't see it as it had Colin Farrell.I knew I wouldn't have been able to see him without that wig he had on in Alexander. |
you just didnt understand what that scene ment!
two professional guys, one a cop and one a smart conman!
but intelligent, and both respect each others career path!
both civilized, deniro not a typical street hood , a smart educated man who will do anything not to get caught, and pacino a smart street cop who will stop at nothing to get his man!
two men who can sit down at a coffeeshop and have a conversation!
thats what that scene means!
not to mention the first time deniro and pacino have shared the screen!
over a cup of coffee!! briliant!!! |
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rothkowitz
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I should be grateful they didn't go catch a movie together then.
I'm not into Mann's wandering sub-plots. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
| rothkowitz wrote: |
That scene can't be explained away as some kind of example of modernism.
Heat has some good moments and really moves along at a great clip.But then it becomes bogged down in pseudo-literary garbage.Collateral has a ridiclous example of it when Cruise's character shoots the jazz club owner when he couldn't answer a question on jazz.WTF??God,what crap.
Perfect examples of 3 hour movies which would have been really so much better(I liked Heat at the time nonetheless)if they'd had some flab trimmed. |
So you like the action sequences in Heat, but got bored when people started talking and empathising all over the place, developing their characters beyond people shooting at each other?? |
Heat was one of my favorite movies of 1995 for the simple reason that the characters were well developped, and the action scenes were quite ironic. I was funny to see Pacino and De Niro, the two great method actors, duking it out with Val Kilmer, probably one of the best method actors of his generation, not far behind. |
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Norm
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Life. Be in it.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: Re: Should Robert DeNiro retire? |
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| Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote: |
| I can just imagine Martin Scorsese considering him for the role in The Departed that went to Jack Nicholson, before quietly saying "Bobby's dead to me" like Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part II. |
That's why I'm a Dave's reader right there. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| rothkowitz wrote: |
Goodness.I'm saying the coffee shop scene was a silly one,not that Pacino or DeNiro are poor actors.
They're not presenting convincing behaviour in that scene.They're just following a self-indulgent,w-anky part of the script.
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Obviously you prefer it when the cops are chasing the robbers.
If you thought that behaviour was unconvincing then you didn't understand thier characters or the situation they are in. Pacino has nothing on De Niro at that time, can't be agressive or do anything to him. He's knows he does stuff, but has no evidence at that time. It serves him well to have some contact, try to understand his thought process. They don't like each other and don't pretend to. There is nothing unconvincing about it.
Furthermore, that scene added depth to the movie, because it highlighted the theme with a few choice lines "I don't know how to do anything else" "Neither do I" "I don't wanna do anything else" "Neither do I". Which is about the fact that you are who you are, and to some extent, you don't have a choice. You got your cards, and you have to ride it out. Neither of these men are in control of thier lives, they're driven by thier inner demons. It's adds a fatalistic patina to the movie which deepens the poignancy of it, and makes it more than a good guy chases and kills bad guy movie. But clearly you prefer it when the cop is chasing the robber... |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| rothkowitz wrote: |
Goodness.I'm saying the coffee shop scene was a silly one,not that Pacino or DeNiro are poor actors.
They're not presenting convincing behaviour in that scene.They're just following a self-indulgent,w-anky part of the script.
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Obviously you prefer it when the cops are chasing the robbers.
If you thought that behaviour was unconvincing then you didn't understand thier characters or the situation they are in. Pacino has nothing on De Niro at that time, can't be agressive or do anything to him. He's knows he does stuff, but has no evidence at that time. It serves him well to have some contact, try to understand his thought process. They don't like each other and don't pretend to. There is nothing unconvincing about it.
Furthermore, that scene added depth to the movie, because it highlighted the theme with a few choice lines "I don't know how to do anything else" "Neither do I" "I don't wanna do anything else" "Neither do I". Which is about the fact that you are who you are, and to some extent, you don't have a choice. You got your cards, and you have to ride it out. Neither of these men are in control of thier lives, they're driven by thier inner demons. It's adds a fatalistic patina to the movie which deepens the poignancy of it, and makes it more than a good guy chases and kills bad guy movie. But clearly you prefer it when the cop is chasing the robber... |
lets forget it.. I'm convinced rothkowitz favorite movie is napolean dynamite or harald and kumar do white castle!
favorite actors are probably pauly shore and brenden frasier!
give me break!! |
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rothkowitz
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Yes,yes and Pacino makes a point of stating his motivation elsewhere,grinding his teeth,looking wired on uppers"On the edge,where I've gotta be"et al.
It was a new take on cop and robber.Different to,say,Day of the Jackal where the inspector only sees Edward Fox at the final,ultimate moment.ie sudden shootout.
My point has been though,that Mann takes such an idea way too far.The coffee shop scene,the jazz club scene in Collateral....It's ultimately distracting to me,not really illuminating at all. |
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rothkowitz
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Pauly Shore?Napoleon Dynamite?  Who?What?Never heard of them. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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you dont like michael manns films now?
so ALI was not a good movie?
The last of the mohicans was not good either right?? |
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rothkowitz
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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I liked the simplicity of the Miami Vice series.You wanna exaggerate the speed of the era,stick the camera down near the ground and let the Testarossa take off!
Give characters simple Yes/No choices.Let their decisions be reflected by how they act.There was something almost "filmic" I liked about him.His movies at least.Movies express ideas in time,on a screen.He typically uses 3 hours in a film.Its hard work when a movie sags from getting literary,from getting bogged down in schtick.
Mohicans I liked.Heat I mostly liked.The Informer made me groggy.Ali,Ok.Collateral was forgettable.Miami Vice movie I didn't bother with.His next projects?Yeah,I'd still be interested. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| rothkowitz wrote: |
Goodness.I'm saying the coffee shop scene was a silly one,not that Pacino or DeNiro are poor actors.
They're not presenting convincing behaviour in that scene.They're just following a self-indulgent,w-anky part of the script.
As for Michael Mann's latest film,Miami Vice,I didn't see it as it had Colin Farrell.I knew I wouldn't have been able to see him without that wig he had on in Alexander. |
you just didnt understand what that scene ment!
two professional guys, one a cop and one a smart conman!
but intelligent, and both respect each others career path!
both civilized, deniro not a typical street hood , a smart educated man who will do anything not to get caught, and pacino a smart street cop who will stop at nothing to get his man!
two men who can sit down at a coffeeshop and have a conversation!
thats what that scene means!
not to mention the first time deniro and pacino have shared the screen!
over a cup of coffee!! briliant!!! |
Agreed!! |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| rothkowitz wrote: |
I liked the simplicity of the Miami Vice series.You wanna exaggerate the speed of the era,stick the camera down near the ground and let the Testarossa take off!
Give characters simple Yes/No choices.Let their decisions be reflected by how they act.There was something almost "filmic" I liked about him.His movies at least.Movies express ideas in time,on a screen.He typically uses 3 hours in a film.Its hard work when a movie sags from getting literary,from getting bogged down in schtick.
Mohicans I liked.Heat I mostly liked.The Informer made me groggy.Ali,Ok.Collateral was forgettable.Miami Vice movie I didn't bother with.His next projects?Yeah,I'd still be interested. |
no two movies are alike..
you cant compare HEAT to collateral or The insider to Ali..
they were all different movies, two of them being biographical, one being about a legend so its a historical portrayal and the other being Based on a true story about a CBS 60 Minutes-episode in 1994 on malpractices in the tobacco industry. so the shooting is going for that documentary style, realistic look.. and I think he acheived it well...
no film is perfect, all films have flaws!
Miami vice movie I thought was one of his worse films to date!
I got more satisfaction from watching a puff daddy video, he could have done so much better than what he did!
back to AL PACINO!
dude. seriously you need to watch some of his movies..
try watching
The Godfather, Cruising , The Panic in Needle Park , Author! Author! , Scarface, Scent of a Woman, Angels in America, Bobby Deerfield ,
these films you can see the range of characters he can play!!
he is one of tghe greatest character actors alive today! becuase of this!
he can transform into any character and is believable!
HEAT is one character! I think he played the part of Vincent Hanna the best anyone could. Hanna, a man driven through life only by his work, becomes obsessed, at the expense of his private life, with bringing McCauley down he plays this character cool as anyone could!
sure he shouts in the movie sometimes, only when he feels he needs too
godfather, scarface when he roars in those movies he goes off!!!
goose bumps all over..
its PACINO! its the MAN!!! |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Pachino is great. But Heat was an overblown disaster, and the coffee shop scene tipped the cards. All that is memorable about that movie is deNiro running around shooting people with a machine gun. |
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