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hanguker
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: Hot pub topic: Did Canada REALLY win the war of 1812? |
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An American English teacher brought up this question to the staff at the reknowned thestraightdope.com. The website did a great deal of research on the subject and finally came up with a final answer. Check it out below:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mwar1812.htm
In summary:
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Did America win the war? We already know Turner's view from the title of his book. In Forgotten Conflict, Hickey says:
If the causes of the war are unclear, so too are the consequences. The United States has won most of its wars, often emerging with significant concessions from the enemy. But the War of 1812 was different. Far from bringing the enemy to terms, the nation was lucky to escape without making extensive concessions itself.
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| Bottom line: The war was a bust for the U.S., and - if you take the view that Canada's only war goal was to avoid becoming an American territory - a success for Canada. |
Now all the Americans and Canadians (like me) can stop debating this at the bar. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Finally I can sleep tonight and start talking to my American friends again. Bravo our lives! |
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riley
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: where creditors can find me
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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My question is the same for all trolls who start talking about War of 1812 and Candada winning. How can a country win a war when it wasn't even a country then?
Now, as far as being a defining moment, yes, this definitely put the idea of being a Canadian into the consciousness of those of Montreal, Toronto, etc. Like the French and Indian War, it started the idea of the people of an area to start thinking about banding together and working together as one. (Though more accurately for the U.S., it would be the aftermath of the French and Indian War)
Most historians would say at best, the U.S. got a draw in that war. We went against the best and biggest navy in the world and one of the better well trained armies in the world, and didn't lose our country. Considering the state of our military at the time, that was pretty good. |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| Bravo our lives! |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Bigger question...WHO CARES?????
Good lord people I have heard more about the war of 1812 since I came to Korea than in all of my time studying American history.
You burned the White House down and got be remain British citizens. Yippee.....I am happy for you! So please keep Celine Dion on your side of the demarcation line and we will do our best to keep Barbra Striesand on ours.
I swear to all that is holy the entire Canadian identity is wrapped up in the War of 1812 and "Look we are not Americans". Never thought you were and never accused any Canadian of being a yank. God forbid because that begins the never ending litiney of famous people who are Canadian and THE FREAKING WAR OF 1812.
Stop the maddness! Stop I say!
Jade |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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The US won the war of 1812....
by 1989. (Jan. 1st to be exact.)
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Didn't Canada become an independent country in like 1996? |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| Didn't Canada become an independent country in like 1996? |
You're a fucking idiot.
It was 1992! |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| Didn't Canada become an independent country in like 1996? |
They're independent? I thought they were still a crown colony like Australia and New Zealand. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| Didn't Canada become an independent country in like 1996? |
They're independent? I thought they were still a crown colony like Australia and New Zealand. |
Oh no. Those places are cool. |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jaderedux wrote: |
You burned the White House down and got be remain British citizens. Yippee.....I am happy for you! So please keep Celine Dion on your side of the demarcation line and we will do our best to keep Barbra Striesand on ours.
Jade |
OH HELL NO!!!! You KEEP Celine Dion and don't let her back into Canada or else!!!!! Ditto Babs Striesand!
We will take back Steve Nash however.
Poet |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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1812 nevar forget 
yes i downloaded the SA icon set today |
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Zoidberg
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Location: Somewhere too hot for my delicate marine constitution
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| Didn't Canada become an independent country in like 1996? |
They're independent? I thought they were still a crown colony like Australia and New Zealand. |
They're not crown colonies, they are independent monarchies all of which whose monarch happens to be the same as England's. But in those countries she is Queen of Australia, Queen of Canada, etc.
A real crown colony would be subject to the British government, like HK was before it went back to China.
| ajgeddes wrote: |
| Bravo our lives! |
For some reason I couldn't stop laughing after reading this. Yes! Brovo all of our lives! |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Zoidberg wrote: |
| They're not crown colonies, they are independent monarchies all of which whose monarch happens to be the same as England's. But in those countries she is Queen of Australia, Queen of Canada, etc. |
I still find it strange to think of old Elizabeth II: the Quickening as 'Queen of New Zealand' though. Apart from appearing on the money (which almost nobody uses anymore) and getting the old people excited, we really don't think about her much.
Anyway, thanks for being down with communism zoidberg  |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Zoidberg wrote: |
| They're not crown colonies, they are independent monarchies all of which whose monarch happens to be the same as England's. But in those countries she is Queen of Australia, Queen of Canada, etc. |
Absolutely. They are constitutional monarchies who share Elizabeth II as their monarch. She does have the power to dismiss the Canadian prime minister but that is a very unlikely scenario indeed. |
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