Korean Job Discussion Forums

[thepeel]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html

[Moldy Rutabaga]

There is freedom of speech, and then there is deliberate, public incitement to violent action.

Deportation.

Ken:>

[Ya-ta Boy]

Actually, the article was quite well-balanced. It reported what the guy said, but more space was alloted to the criticism the sermon engendered. My only complaint was the headline. It should have been more along the lines of "Community Ire Roused at Sermon".

A good deal of the current hysteria, inside and outside of the Middle East, is the result of poor media reporting. I would hate to have my culture known mainly from the sermons of Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart.

[thepeel]

Maybe you missed the

most senior Muslim cleric

part?

If Christian leaders in the USA said this, they should be dragged through the streets by feminists with bats. So should the muslim barbarian who said it.

The "MOST SENIOR MUSLIM CLERIC" in OZ says it and still it is treated like a minority opinion. A comment from the nether-regions of islam. Only a loud minority... Again, he is the "Most senior muslim cleric!!!!!!!"

This is mainstream islamic thought. Full stop.

That we don't like the fact that this is a mainstream idea doesn't make it not a mainstream islamic idea.

[happeningthang]

[happeningthang]

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=69252

[thepeel]

They are just to far behind, in terms of cultural development, to be allowed to settle in the West. Thats my point and I'm sticking too it.

[thepeel]

[Interested]

[happeningthang]

[thepeel]

So, this is what has happened.

A prominent muslim "leader" compares women, in public, to be of Satan and not all that dissimilar to raw meat hanging outside.

I voice outrage at such a thing being said.

You accuse me of being unconcerned with womens rights and "smear"ing all muslims and try to steer the conversation towards an unrelated post about rape being reported or not.

Now, why would you do that? Why the uncontrollable urge to prevent criticism of an ideology that has more in common with 'mainstream' Nazism than it does any secular-liberal positions?

Here is the starting point: There is no Allah, thus, Islam is false. It is an idea. A social construction, and as such 100% vulnerable to, and needing of unrestrained criticism.

Back in the day, when secular folks had balls, book after book would have been written about this. Nietzsche would have been relentless.

Why can I not focus my criticism on it? It certainly isn't at the expense of my criticism of Christians, commies and Republicans. But for some strange reason, the subject only ever gets changed when I focus on muslims.....

[happeningthang]

Yeah fair enough. It's a common refrain in these debates, and it's not because any one side is being deceitful. I think we both have opions and a point of view, that we consider so basic, that we assume the other guy has this same source of reference. Maybe it'd be better for us to take the time to state the basic stance of our argument?

I believe that muslims in my country are deserving of the same rights as anyone else. When people suggest over the top punishments be meted out to muslim people who are doing, or have done the same thing as others (who aren't punished to the same degree) have done, then it strikes me as unequal. The whole "relative" thing is people pointing out this double standard.

If you're upset by muslim muftiman saying this in public, I assume, you would be similiarly upset by a district court judge saying the same thing in an open court. Personally I'm even more outraged by the judge because he holds a more important position in my secular, Western country.

So when I hear people having more outrage reserved for one group of people over another, I ask myself why that is. When I make it "relative" I'm asking you why that is. Why deport one guy over the other? The only difference I see, and that you call attention to, is the fact that one guy is muslim, the other guy is not.

I linked to the rape article, because I think it demonstrates that there are people, in positions of authority, in secular democracies who hold similar views as the mufti. That women are somehow deserving of rape, and that the burden of proof is on the victim not the criminal. To me the article is related to your OP, because I'm talking about, what I percieve to be, a double standard.

My problem with your argument, and it's borne out by your own words, is that you're being too broad in laying blame. Youv'e gone from what one guy has said, to claims against an entire religion.

[thepeel]

I don't know which judge you speak of, but I'll take your word for it that what was said should not have been said -- and especially not by a judge.

To be sure, I care about the rights of all individuals. I've got a particular sensitivity to the plight of homosexuals around the world as nobody seems to advocate for them in the vast majority of countries. If a gay doesn't live in the West, nobody cares what the hell is done to him or her. Nobody. Look at dd's reply to my posting about this very subject today. Ignore the topic and attack me for bringing it up. Muslims are as regressive as is possible on this topic (gays), and this is indicative of a wider problem that affects women among others. I will not pretend that all is well just because some people are scared of them or blind to them.

I don't expect you to read all of my posts, and I guess I should be more clear when posting. I have defended, time and time again, gay marriage, abortion, drug decriminalization and have been criticized as anti-Christian (among others). I'm a very committed secular-liberal. And that is my problem.. I see a deep threat to the final establishment of truly liberal and plural societies in muslims. And I will not pretend that a 'typical' muslim today is equal to your typical Christian today in their ideas about how a nation ought to be run. To equate the vast majority of one with the tiny minority of the other is a grave mistake.

If the second largest source of new Canadians wasn't islam, I wouldn't speak up much about it. I'd care, but not feel it right for me to tell them how to live in their own nations. But the 2nd largest source of new Canadians is islam, and as such they are fair game.

[ChimpumCallao]

[SPINOZA]