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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| So Catholic priests have a huge amount of sway over African culture through what they say at the pulpit. If you're catholic, you obey your parish preists wishes on important thing. And they still to this day are resolute that they will never accept condom use. They preach this. People follow it. And people die in record numbers. From my vantage point it is nothing less than cold blooded murder. To be that perversely comitted to an abstract principle even when that principle is KILLING people daily really shows how archaic and redundant the Catholic church has become in the modern world. They are evil. |
Are these priests also telling everyong to sleep around with multiple parnters? ... thought not.
But hey, blaming the Catholic Church is cool and trendy! Let's do that. |
The Church didn`t have to tell them to do that, because that is what they have been doing since time began. It`s a deeply rooted part of human nature, the survival instinct. So, given that they are going to do it, no matter what, the church choses to cling to an abstract principle rather than do something practical to help save thier lives. Murder. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| I don't feel like arguing, but "murder". That's just silly. I'm calling "Rapier" on you! |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| I don't feel like arguing, but "murder". That's just silly. I'm calling "Rapier" on you! |
OK, Im open to suggestions, what would you call a policy that you know for certain has and will continue to result in the deaths of millions of people. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| People follow it. And people die in record numbers. From my vantage point it is nothing less than cold blooded murder. |
I don't follow the argument.
Whenever we talk about sex, we run the danger of someone trotting out the statement that the church hates sex. I do not think this is true. We put limits on eating, not because food is bad but because if we let our appetites run wild it would hurt us. So goes the logic. The Catholics do not discourage condoms to prevent sex or to make people have babies, but to encourage responsible sex. It is strange to say that this is murder, and a little racist (I don't accuse the poster of having that intent) to suggest that them darkies can't control their sexual drives. At any rate, Catholic prohibitions of condom use has been very spotty-- when I lived in Mexico my Catholic male friends just rolled their eyes-- and I expect the same will happen in Africa. The appalling murder rates in Africa are far more complex than to reduce them to condom use, and I wonder how many people would use them anyway..
I am not Catholic. I think history will judge JPII kindly for trying to foster interfaith dialogue, for his several official pardons and apologies for historic mistakes-- it sets a good precedent to admit that neither the church nor the pope were or are infallible. And he was personable as well and travelled very widely. The new guy looks pretty scary and needs better P.R. than his intellectual credentials.
What people might judge JPII more critically for was his failure to make a clean sweep of the molestation issues of the past half-century (or more). If Benedict stood up and said, 'we've f--ed up and we're not covering up anymore and this is how child predators will be policed and punished in the future' it would make him a pope of action. Being a pope of peace is nice too, but sometimes not enough. Other than that, a good pope is probably a pope who stays out of the news.
Ken:> |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| "Encourage responsible sex" is a good euphanism for "insist on no sex outside of marriage". I personally think this is a very damaging idea in it's self, but even if it were a good idea, the reality of life is that there has never been a time in human history where even a significant majority of people adhered to no sex before marriage, and there never will be. It goes fundamentally against the nature of humanity. This is the church coming up against a brick wall, it's ideals are too far from reality to ever be realised. Given that fact, they chose to remain inflexible. And yes I do think catholic Africans would use condoms more if the church ok'd it. You mentioned racism breifly, and I think it's a rather racist idea to suggest that Africans wouldn't embrace condoms if they were not just ok'd but heavily promoted by the church as a way of staying healthy and saving lives. Any way you want to cut it, the no condom policy is costing lives, needlessly. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I find myself in the difficult position of arguing that the Vatican's policy against condom use is hardly the main cause of violence in Africa.. while agreeing that it's a misguided and non-scriptural teaching!
I think that abstaining from sex before marriage is possible, but certainly the fact that for most of the European middle ages marriage happened in early teenage years helped; people weren't exposed to years and years of denying themselves.
Ken:> |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: |
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People get what they deserve, generally. If you have a religion that says don't commit adultery and you do it, then you deserve what your angry god metes out.
There are victims, don't get me wrong. the catholic god is not as forgiving as say the methodist god.
good point, moldy. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| As far as I'm concerned, in order for a pope to be great he must be dead. They are generally less dangerous that way. |
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