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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
When you look at the tables that show the evidence around other historical figures/events and than you look at the evidence for the bible. What is more believable? |
Huh? I didn't see anything about Isaiah / Deutero-Isaiah in any of your links.
And what prophecies have come true since 100 CE? |
I am not familiar with that so that will take some time, i guess, maybe a week. Regardless, why focus on this aspect when there is so much other evidence to support the accuracy of biblical text and its time period? |
That's what was on the table.
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Isn't that about the time the Bible, as we know it now, was finalized? It will eliminate selective inclusion. You know, publishing only those prophecies which came true after they've already been fulfilled. Surely there's a few things from the last 1900 years that had been prophecized.
Edit: One more reason - any pre-Jesus prophecies would have come from the Jewish prophets. How about some prophecies from the Christian disciples? What's their record? |
Here is a prophesy that is being fulfilled right now. It comes from Ezekiel.
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In addition to the hundreds of Biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past, there are a special class of predictions that focus on the events of what the Scriptures call "the last days", "the latter times", or other similar expressions. These prophecies also provide further evidence of Biblical inspiration, since many of them are being fulfilled right before our eyes! As more and more of these ancient predictions are seen coming to pass, the evidence for the Divine origin of the Bible is made stronger all the time.
THE RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL
The most important of these end-time prophecies, the re-establishment of Israel as a nation in it's ancient homeland. That a nation could be completely destroyed as an organized entity by an invading army (by the Romans in 70 AD), it�s people either slaughtered or scattered from one end of the world to the other, it�s lands occupied and ruled by aliens for over 1900 years. Yet Israel survived as a distinct nationality, and then finally regained its homeland and became recognized as a viable nation once more by the other nations of the world. (1/191)
Seems impossible? Even so, it was predicted to happen many centuries before it happened. Jesus Himself predicted the fall of Jerusalem in Luke 19:43-44, "The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God�s coming to you." Deuteronomy 28:64 prophesies "Then the Lord will scatter you among the nations from one end of the earth to the other." Jesus again predicts in Luke 21:24, "They will fall by the sword and will be taken prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.".
The Jews began to return to Palestine in small numbers in the early part of the twentieth century, and then in much larger numbers after World War I. After World War II the Israeli nation was re-established in part in 1948, and in 1967 in the "six-day war" Israel recaptured the "old city" of Jerusalem. Amazingly, Jerusalem is now completely under Jewish control, except for one spot. This is on Mount Moriah where the Arabs have built their famous Dome-of-the-Rock, the second most holy place in the Muslim world. The Jews for political or other reasons have not yet dared to expel the Arabs from this site, raze it, and proceed to rebuild their temple, as they must want to do. (1/192-193) "Last Days Prophecy" is being fulfilled right before our eyes!
I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered--with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath.
Ezekiel 20:34 |
As for the disciples prophesying....they are still to be fulfilled. There are examples within scripture that testifies of the prophecies of that time, but would you believe it?
Paul and John prophesied in Thesalonians that the Anti-Christ would set up a kingdom of terror.
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| According to Prophecies in Daniel 9:27, Matt 24:15 and 2 Thes 2:4, a Temple will exist in Israel at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. This is confirmed in Revelation 11:1 by having John measure a Temple and count the worshippers there shortly before the Tribulation begins. He's told to omit the outer court because it's been given over to the Gentiles. Its location is the "Holy City" which will be trampled on by the Gentiles for 42 months, the length of the Great Tribulation. Chapter 11 also introduces the 2 witnesses who preach in the "Great City" and are ultimately killed there, their bodies left lying in the street. The Great City is identified as the place where the Lord was crucified: Jerusalem. It's been trampled on by the Gentiles for 2000 years. Are the Holy City and the Great City the same or different? |
It is becoming increasing evident of a world wide movement that will try to eliminate the Jewish people and its state.
Paul also prophesied that the end times would look like this,
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2) 2 Timothy 3:1-3 -- "... in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good ..." (Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)
While I am sure you can recognize much of American society within this Scripture, I want to focus on the one word, "incontinent", used in the above Scripture. The dictionary defines "incontinent" as being "wild", "uninhibited", "wanton", and "lacking in moral restraint". Certainly, this applies greatly and accurately to our society today, including many of our teens. |
Paul also prophesied on a few other things. However, his writings weren't meant to be prophetic in nature. John was the more prophetic one. Revelations.
As for current day prophets.
Paul Cain
http://www.paulcain.org/255677.html
And William Branham
http://www.williambranham.com/
Were probably the most accurate of all the prophets, but Paul Cain fell into sin and the same with William Branham. |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
When you look at the tables that show the evidence around other historical figures/events and than you look at the evidence for the bible. What is more believable? |
Huh? I didn't see anything about Isaiah / Deutero-Isaiah in any of your links.
And what prophecies have come true since 100 CE? |
I am not familiar with that so that will take some time, i guess, maybe a week. Regardless, why focus on this aspect when there is so much other evidence to support the accuracy of biblical text and its time period?
Why do you want prophecies after 100 AD? What does this prove? |
5E a readers digest version of the Deutero-Isaiah Theory:
Biblical "textual critics" theorize that the Book of Isaiah was written by two different writers, each calling himself Isaiah but writing at different times. This idea is championed by many ascribing to modern or "liberal" commentaries. There are some critics that even advocate that three persons authored Isaiah. The textual critics point to the differences in tone, language, and style between the two major sections as proof that the book was written by two different authors.
The first section of the book deals with God's approaching judgment on the nation of Judah. Chapters 1-39 clearly belong to the eighth century B.C., a turbulent period in the history of Judah. The style of this section is distinctive and certainly fits the subject matter.
The last section is noticeably different. It emphasizes the expectation of the Messiah. This section, Chapters 40 � 66, includes Chapter 53 - of which you are probably familiar. The style in this section also dovetails into the subject matter. On the surface it appears Isaiah Chapters 40-66, were written for the citizens of Judah during the Babylonian captivity, about two centuries after Isaiah lived.
Because of the changes in style between the two sections (Chps. 1 - 39 & Chps 40 - 66) that some textual critics believe Isaiah had 2 authors.
Those who do not agree with the theory point to similar phraseology, idioms and idea development as indicating single authorship. Critics of the theory also contend that the different subject matter addressed between Chapter 1 � 39 (Judah) and Chapters 40 � 66 (Messianic � Prophetic) require a certain change in style and tone by a single author. They contend there is and must be variations in style and tone to match the subject matter. They also point to John Chapter 12 v. 37 � 41 as validation of single authorship.
This is very bare bones and I have probably missed many of the component parts of the theory and the many rebuttals, but I hope it helps.
Recommendation: If you are going to come on the board and post about "Bufford's Guide to Prophesy" or whatever that link was, you might want to brush up on some apologetics. You're kinda gettin' your butt handed to you, in a manner of speaking 
Take care.
T |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
Huh? I didn't see anything about Isaiah / Deutero-Isaiah in any of your links. |
I am not familiar with that so that will take some time, i guess, maybe a week. Regardless, why focus on this aspect when there is so much other evidence to support the accuracy of biblical text and its time period? |
Let me rephrase my answer - I prefer to look at the evidence one piece at a time. If people are going to use something as "proof" they'd better be prepared to back it up with the facts.
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Here is a prophesy that is being fulfilled right now. It comes from Ezekiel.
...
THE RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL
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Still in progress.
| Ezek 20: wrote: |
| 38 I will purge you of those who revolt and rebel against me. Although I will bring them out of the land where they are living, yet they will not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. |
Still waiting for this one to come true.
| Ezek 20: wrote: |
| 45 The word of the LORD came to me: 46 "Son of man, set your face toward the south; preach against the south and prophesy against the forest of the southland. 47 Say to the southern forest: 'Hear the word of the LORD. This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am about to set fire to you, and it will consume all your trees, both green and dry. The blazing flame will not be quenched, and every face from south to north will be scorched by it. |
And this one?
| 5e wrote: |
| As for the disciples prophesying....they are still to be fulfilled. There are examples within scripture that testifies of the prophecies of that time, but would you believe it? |
"Still to be fulfilled," eh? Sounds like most of my prophecies. As for prophecies of that time, I suspect there'll be problems with verification and selective inclusion. So no, I probably wouldn't buy them.
| 5e wrote: |
| Paul and John prophesied in Thesalonians that the Anti-Christ would set up a kingdom of terror. |
Who does this refer to? Jengis Kahn? Hitler? B*sh? No names? What happend to giving us names like "Isaiah" did.
| 5e wrote: |
| Paul also prophesied that the end times... |
Hmmm, this all sounds so familiar....
Aha! Now I remember.
| 5e wrote: |
As for current day prophets.
Were probably the most accurate of all the prophets, but Paul Cain fell into sin and the same with William Branham. |
"Most accurate"?? What happened to exact and 100% accurate? |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
Yet it doesn't provide one example.
Not one. Not one. Not one.
You would think they would give us an example, especially since they claim that because the Bible has a 100% record on predictions, it is the true word of God. |
Why, are you going to change your mind?
Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible
by Hugh Ross, Ph.D.
Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter�no errors. (The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) Since the probability for any one of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance averages less than one in ten (figured very conservatively) and since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 102000 (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!
God is not the only one, however, who uses forecasts of future events to get people's attention. Satan does, too. Through clairvoyants (such as Jeanne Dixon and Edgar Cayce), mediums, spiritists, and others, come remarkable predictions, though rarely with more than about 60 percent accuracy, never with total accuracy. Messages from Satan, furthermore, fail to match the detail of Bible prophecies, nor do they include a call to repentance.
The acid test for identifying a prophet of God is recorded by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:21-22. According to this Bible passage (and others), God's prophets, as distinct from Satan's spokesmen, are 100 percent accurate in their predictions. There is no room for error.
As economy does not permit an explanation of all the Biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled, what follows in a discussion of a few that exemplify the high degree of specificity, the range of projection, and/or the "supernature" of the predicted events.
(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.
(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10/5th)*
(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.
(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10/5th.)
(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave�thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used�just as predicted�for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).
(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10/11th.)
(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.
(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10/13th.)
(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.
(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10/15th.)
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml
You doubters will no doubt come back and say the Bible isn't trustworthy and therefore can't be blieved.
The Bible has proven itself trustworthy to those who have an open mind and an objective eye. To the rest of you, you won't believe even if Jesus Christ himself walked through your walls at dinner time and allowed you to stick your finger in the holes in his hands and the hole in his side. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The textual critics point to the differences in tone, language, and style between the two major sections as proof that the book was written by two different authors. |
Not proof, just evidence. Evidence that can be interpreted differently.
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| On the surface it appears Isaiah Chapters 40-66, were written for the citizens of Judah during the Babylonian captivity, about two centuries after Isaiah lived. |
"It appears.." Pure conjecture/speculation, no more valid then the idea that Isaiah was the author, which should be accepted unless clear and convincing proof otherwise.
I could go on. Also, Isaiah just happens to be one of the most historically supported books of antiquity. More texts exist for Isaiah than any other single manuscript of antiquity.
"If there were a best-seller booklist in the time of Jesus, the Book of Isaiah would undoubtedly top the charts. In addition to the two Isaiah scrolls, another twenty-odd partial copies of Isaiah plus six commentaries were found hidden in the Judean wilderness caves. Luckily, the Judean birds, that loved to stuff their nests with biblical manuscripts, overlooked the Isaiah hidden in Cave Number 1, so we do have a copy intact with all 66 chapters. That copy is dated to the first century B.C. and is referred to as Isaiah Manuscript 1. It is among the most valuable manuscripts in the world."
The existence of the 2,000-year-old Isaiah scroll is a tribute to the religious devotion of the community that produced it and to the prodigious skill of the scribes who copied it. Although separated by more than 1,000 years from the later Masoretic (traditional) text, Isaiah Manuscript #1 is nearly identical to it, boosting our confidence in the care with which biblical texts were transmitted from one generation to the next. Today we can open our Bibles with assurance that we are reading the same holy text as Jesus did, nearly 2,000 years ago."
http://www.itsgila.com/headlinerscrolls.htm |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Did the bible predict this?
Sex-row US pastor 'bought drugs'
Because Jesus turned water into meth and gave a topless massage to the groom before the wedding... |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
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| On the surface it appears Isaiah Chapters 40-66, were written for the citizens of Judah during the Babylonian captivity, about two centuries after Isaiah lived. |
"It appears.." Pure conjecture/speculation, no more valid then the idea that Isaiah was the author, which should be accepted unless clear and convincing proof otherwise. |
 And now we need a "clear and convincing proof". How does one prove that a document wasn't written earlier? Clearly the burden of proof lies on those claiming the earlier date.
| Quote: |
| the Isaiah hidden in Cave Number 1, so we do have a copy intact with all 66 chapters. That copy is dated to the first century B.C. and is referred to as Isaiah Manuscript 1. |
Which post-dates the fulfillment of the "prophecies". |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Meegook wrote: |
| Quote: |
| On the surface it appears Isaiah Chapters 40-66, were written for the citizens of Judah during the Babylonian captivity, about two centuries after Isaiah lived. |
"It appears.." Pure conjecture/speculation, no more valid then the idea that Isaiah was the author, which should be accepted unless clear and convincing proof otherwise. |
And now we need a "clear and convincing proof". How does one prove that a document wasn't written earlier? Clearly the burden of proof lies on those claiming the earlier date.
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Actually not so. You are turning it around and asking for faith to become visible in front of your face. The proof comes in the fact that biblical prophesy hasn't been disproved. The more archeologists and historians dig around and try to disprove scripture the more it becomes credible when they can't disprove it.
Clearly the burden of proof lies on you and those who don't believe. Your hope lies in the fact that Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Micah and others wrote the scriptures after the propesies took place. You have so much to lose if your wrong. What do I have to lose? 
I will respond to the rest of your stuff after my flight. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| How does one prove that a document wasn't written earlier? Clearly the burden of proof lies on those claiming the earlier date. |
LMHO
Tell that to the evolutionists with their 300 billions of years. Here we have something that is dated back a few hundred years with more copies to back it up than I have of Topps bubble gum baseball cards from the 1960s and we still have doubters.
You don't want to believe.
| Quote: |
| I think it would be better to say that the fundamental descriptions and theological teachings in scripture are basically true but at times there are small discrepancies or minor errors. This should not weaken faith if we remember that the Bible is written to explain God's relationship with man and not to function as a history text. The words are inspired by God but recorded by man. |
Absolute bunk on all three points:
1. small discrepancies or minor errors.
2. not to function as a history text.
3. The words are inspired by God but recorded by man.
There are no small discrepanciesor minor errors. If you claim there are then the burden is upon you to show them.
It is the most accurate and oldest history book exant. The evidence that this is so is overwhelming.
Inspired by God means just that - God breathed. Man recorded what God inspired and there are no changes or 'small descepancies or minor errors." |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
And now we need a "clear and convincing proof". How does one prove that a document wasn't written earlier? Clearly the burden of proof lies on those claiming the earlier date. |
Actually not so. You are turning it around and asking for faith to become visible in front of your face. The proof comes in the fact that biblical prophesy hasn't been disproved. The more archeologists and historians dig around and try to disprove scripture the more it becomes credible when they can't disprove it. |
The comment wasn't meant for you. It's in reference to Meegook's moving definition of "proof". Fuzzy circumstantial evidence works for his causes, but "clear and convincing proof" is needed for everyone else.
Feel free to have your faith. But don't come to use saying you have "proof". Proof means credible and scientific. And a lack of disproof does not equate to proof. You can't prove a negative.
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| Clearly the burden of proof lies on you and those who don't believe. Your hope lies in the fact that Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Micah and others wrote the scriptures after the propesies took place. You have so much to lose if your wrong. What do I have to lose? |
Well, you're ignoring the fact that all of these great prophets were Jewish. Remember, "the chosen people"? They certainly have a thing or two to say about "fulfilled prophecies". Do you assume G-d will forgive you for worshipping a false prophet? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: ... |
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There are no small discrepanciesor minor errors. If you claim there are then the burden is upon you to show them.
It is the most accurate and oldest history book exant. The evidence that this is so is overwhelming.
Inspired by God means just that - God breathed. Man recorded what God inspired and there are no changes or 'small descepancies or minor errors." |
Which version are you referring to?  |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Alright, here's the thing. I don't believe Jesus was the literal Son of God.
Now is he a real historical figure? I don't know, but at the same time i'm very open to the possibility that he was.
And i've read portions of the New Testement and I really admire Christ's message. It is quite beautiful and I do make efforts to model my life after it. I feel the same way about Buddah.
And if I somehow had the priveledge of meeting either man and buy them a beer or better yet smoke a joint with them. Much respect!
But do either of these men have a monopoly on the true answers to existance and the after life? No, of course not.
I personally believe that their message is superior to that of Mohammed or Moses, but that's my opinion.
I would never claim to know the answers to the questions (existance & afterlife) that all human beings share.
And those who do fall into three groups:
(a) Individuals who are truely looking for something and have found comfort in particular religion because it gives them supposed answers and more importantly much needed discipline in their lives.
(b) People who grew up in a particular culture and were fed their religioun from birth.
(c) People in power who use their supposed monopoly on the answers to existance and the afterlife, in order to maintain political power.
It's these people who disgust me the most.
What religion has done in my opinion is turn genuine human spirituality into bureaucratic spirituality.
And whatever man, if an indivdual or even a large group believe in a certain idea then that's cool.
Man I don't claim to know the answers, but if somebody feels they do then I hope their happy.
However, if an individual or group claims that they have the true answer and criticise and and attempy to show fake pitty on those who don't, then I have a problem.
If somebody tries to proselytize me, they have the freedom to do so. But the moment they judge me when I respectfully decline their offer, I reserve the right to openly criticise them on their beliefs.
Cause even if they believe it, they don't have the answers for me or humanty for that matter. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| if an individual or group claims that they have the true answer |
By definition, there can be only one Truth.
Truth never contradicts itself.
So two different 'ways' can't be true.
Either what Jesus Christ said was truth or it wasn't.
John 14:6
"I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Anyone can make prophecies. Here's mine:
"If it doesn't rain tomorrow, it will be a beautiful day." |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, in the sense we are discussing in this thread, that's not a prophecy, that's a prediction. Actually, it's more of a common sense extropolation.
A prophet declares divinely inspired prophecy.
Fortune tellers make predictions, which are usually false.
The prophets we're discussing here - Biblical - are 100% accurate, even hundreds of years after the prophecy is made public. |
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