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Israeli soldiers shoot women
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Interested

Joined: 10 Feb 2003

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: Israeli soldiers shoot women

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1939300,00.html

Quote:

Palestinian women described yesterday how they were shot and injured in the face and the legs by Israeli troops as they led a protest march into the scene of the biggest military incursion into Gaza in months.

At least one woman was killed and 10 were injured as large crowds of women walked past tanks into the town of Beit Hanoun yesterday morning saying they wanted to help free a group of Palestinian gunmen holed up inside a mosque

Quote:

"There were about 30 women in our group, all in the main street. We were moving into the town and passing by the Israeli tanks. We carried two white flags. They didn't ask us to stop and then suddenly we saw them shooting at us," she said. "I was hit but there were no ambulances. We were calling for them but there was nothing." Her husband found a donkey cart and put the injured women on the back and led them out of the town to waiting ambulances. Mrs Hamad was hit on the forehead and in the left shoulder and was yesterday being treated at the al-Ouda hospital in Gaza.

Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:14 am Post subject:

I think we're over the whole human shield tactic now. relying on your enemy's sense of humanity to perpetuate your own inhumanity. So...muslims who value women as little more than cattle, force their females to stop the bullets meant for their heroic terrorist killers. people who randomly fire rockets into civilian areas. nice. Lets fire a whole load of rockets into israel then take shelter in a mosque and order our women to protect us. if they volunteered and were encouraged to do so, then more fool them. They knew that they were stepping into the line of fire. Mind you what punishment awaits a female who is seen to refuse her duty to die pointlessly for the cause of 7th century barbarism. or maybe dying is better than being an oppressed beast of burden in muslim society, who knows? Will barbarism triumph over the world by appealing to others humanity as a weakness?

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:43 am Post subject:

Junior wrote:

I think we're over the whole human shield tactic now. relying on your enemy's sense of humanity to perpetuate your own inhumanity.

So...muslims who value women as little more than cattle, force their females to stop the bullets meant for their heroic terrorist killers. people who randomly fire rockets into civilian areas. nice.
Lets fire a whole load of rockets into israel then take shelter in a mosque and order our women to protect us.

if they volunteered and were encouraged to do so, then more fool them. They knew that they were stepping into the line of fire. Mind you what punishment awaits a female who is seen to refuse her duty to die pointlessly for the cause of 7th century barbarism. or maybe dying is better than being an oppressed beast of burden in muslim society, who knows?

Will barbarism triumph over the world by appealing to others humanity as a weakness?

Well then Junior off you go and show us how well you stop Israelis from abusing women. It's clear your skills are needed here...

Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:59 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Well then Junior off you go and show us how well you stop Israelis from abusing women. It's clear your skills are needed here...

You sure are a sucker for the media agenda.

The people abusing palestinian women..are their own menfolk. Get it?

plaestinian men are the ones who see fit to hide behind womens skirts, even using their own children as human shields. Palestinian men are the ones forcing their wives, sisters and daughters to be as slaves, dogs. To stone them to death or set them alight if they are even rumoured to be unfaithful, or seen leaving the house without permission. The highest aim of a palestinian woman is to give her life protecting the male of the household or producing yet another male.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:23 am Post subject:

Junior wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Well then Junior off you go and show us how well you stop Israelis from abusing women. It's clear your skills are needed here...

(1) You sure are a sucker for the media agenda.

(2) The people abusing palestinian women..are their own menfolk. Get it?

plaestinian men are the ones who see fit to hide behind womens skirts, even using their own children as human shields. Palestinian men are the ones forcing their wives, sisters and daughters to be as slaves, dogs. To stone them to death or set them alight if they are even rumoured to be unfaithful, or seen leaving the house without permission. The highest aim of a palestinian woman is to give her life protecting the male of the household or producing yet another male.

(numbers are mine)

1. I think you should check my posts on the Jewish vs. Palestinian issue. I have ALWAYS sided with the Jews 100%.

2. I was referring to your tales of bravery of forcing K-men to stop abusing their womenfolk. It's clear that such a brave warrior as yourself is needed for Palestinians.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:26 am Post subject:

Junior wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Well then Junior off you go and show us how well you stop Israelis from abusing women. It's clear your skills are needed here...

It appears from your posting, that you are, perhaps unwittingly, focused on animus your hatred of Muslims and Arabs and thus not being objective regarding the facts out there. That is quite unfortunate. For example, when dealing with the circumcision issue you, without really checking your facts, assumed it was a wide-spread practice among all Muslim countries when it is rather common in parts of Africa and rather rare and non-existent outside of Africa. 1,500 cases in Iraq out of a population of 25 million does not compare to the numbers in Africa or the percentages. All of humanity, regadless of race or faith, deserve to be dealt with using objectivity and facts.

Palestinian men do not force their women to be slaves or dogs. How many Palestinian men do you know? Most of them are very good people and men. The setting on fire of women happens in India among some fanatical Hindus. Palestinians are not Hindus get your facts straight.
There are no stonings that occur in Palestine. Have you been to the West Bank? There are cases where if a woman has sex that in some families they may kill the daughter in so-called honour killings, but your allegation that they treat their women like slaves is very, very false. Most Palestinian men treat their wives with love and respect.

Last edited by Adventurer on Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:30 am; edited 1 time in total

spliff

Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:18 am Post subject:

Shit happens...you play - you pay...

Meegook

Joined: 12 Oct 2006

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:38 am Post subject:

Quote:

I think you should check my posts on the Jewish vs. Palestinian issue. I have ALWAYS sided with the Jews 100%.

Really? The Jews are always right? Never wrong?

Quote:

Palestinian men are the ones forcing their wives, sisters and daughters to be as slaves, dogs.

Really? Care to actually back up this ridiculous bigoted statement with some facts? Or don't facts matter to you?

spliff

Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:47 am Post subject:

Whatever dude, defacto vs dejure Ilaw still comes down to might. Need it spelled any clearer?

NAVFC

Joined: 10 May 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:

The violence in israel will end when Islamic extremists give up their quest to destroy Israel and simply leave her be. Once the terror stops, so will israels military (and justified) reactions. No other country on Earth has so many working to destroy it then Israel.

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Junior wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Well then Junior off you go and show us how well you stop Israelis from abusing women. It's clear your skills are needed here...

You sure are a sucker for the media agenda.

The people abusing palestinian women..are their own menfolk. Get it?

plaestinian men are the ones who see fit to hide behind womens skirts, even using their own children as human shields. Palestinian men are the ones forcing their wives, sisters and daughters to be as slaves, dogs. To stone them to death or set them alight if they are even rumoured to be unfaithful, or seen leaving the house without permission. The highest aim of a palestinian woman is to give her life protecting the male of the household or producing yet another male.

It appears from your posting, that you are, perhaps unwittingly, focused on animus your hatred of Muslims and Arabs and thus not being objective regarding the facts out there. That is quite unfortunate. For example, when dealing with the circumcision issue you, without really checking your facts, assumed it was a wide-spread practice among all Muslim countries when it is rather common in parts of Africa and rather rare and non-existent outside of Africa. 1,500 cases in Iraq out of a population of 25 million does not compare to the numbers in Africa or the percentages. All of humanity, regadless of race or faith, deserve to be dealt with using objectivity and facts.

Palestinian men do not force their women to be slaves or dogs. How many Palestinian men do you know? Most of them are very good people and men. The setting on fire of women happens in India among some fanatical Hindus. Palestinians are not Hindus get your facts straight.
There are no stonings that occur in Palestine. Have you been to the West Bank? There are cases where if a woman has sex that in some families they may kill the daughter in so-called honour killings, but your allegation that they treat their women like slaves is very, very false. Most Palestinian men treat their wives with love and respect.

Junior is exactly that -- a junior. He should live more and look at others outside of his little paper castle of "Muslim bad this, muslim bad that...".

DD

Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject:

Adventurer wrote:

Palestinian men do not force their women to be slaves or dogs. How many Palestinian men do you know? Most of them are very good people and men. The setting on fire of women happens in India among some fanatical Hindus. Palestinians are not Hindus get your facts straight.
There are no stonings that occur in Palestine. Have you been to the West Bank? There are cases where if a woman has sex that in some families they may kill the daughter in so-called honour killings, but your allegation that they treat their women like slaves is very, very false. Most Palestinian men treat their wives with love and respect.

And where do you get your information from? A western assumption that all societies have the same values as your own?
How can loving/respectful men call on their wives and daughters to be human shields against bullets?

My information comes first hand, albeit from a single source. I recomend you read : "Souad, burned alive. A victim of the law of men"
http://www.ciao.co.uk/Burned_Alive_A_Victim_of_the_Law_of_Men_Souad__5645944

Here is a review:

"My name is Souad. My story began almost 25 years ago in my native village in the West Bank, a tiny place, in a region then occupied by the Israelis. If I named my village, I could be in danger, even though I am now thousands of miles away. In my village I am officially dead; if I were to go back today they would try to kill me a second time for the honour of my family. It's the law of the land. It's because I am a woman."

The story of Souad, tells the story of thousands of women who live in similar villages, whereby as females, they are classed as worthless beings, valued lower than the family's livestock, which could bring coin. The story highlights the naivety of these women who accepted abuse and beatings on a regular occurrence, sometimes for even the smallest of mistakes, whilst their brothers or male neighbours were allowed the full realm of freedom.

Souad was only seventeen when she fell in love with Faiez, a neighbour who had once asked her parents for her hand in marriage. They refused as her elder sister was still unwed, and it was not permissible for Souad to marry first. So, Souad, desperate to be free of her menial existence, and the intense daily beatings she received from her father, allowed Faiez to meet her, in secret. Unfortunately in her village, in the West Bank, sexual relations before marriage was considered to be a grave dishonour against the family, and were considered a crime punishable by death. Souad was discovered to have committed this crime when her parents noticed her growing belly as she was with child.

Souad's brother-in-law, Hussein, was given the responsibility of ensuring Souad received her punishment. As she finished her daily tasks assigned to her, Hussein entered the field where she was working, and proceeded to approach Souad.

"Suddenly I felt a cold liquid running over my head; I was on fire. I slapped at my hair. I screamed. My dress billowed out behind me. Was it on fire, too? I smelt the petrol and ran, the hem of my dress getting in the way. Did he run after me? Was he waiting for me to fall so he could watch me go up in flames?"

In the eyes of the community Hussein was now a hero for protecting the family's honour, and Souad was outcast, and left to die. Miraculously, Souad survived, albeit with horrific burns, and left to rot in a hospital, which could not, and would not intervene with the family's wishes surrounding her care and treatment. It was only the intervention of Jacqueline, an aid worker working for the humanitarian organisation, Terre des Hommes, which enabled Souad to receive the care and help that she so desperately needed.

After Jacqueline's help in travelling to a European country, Souad finally begins to rebuild her life. Now she has decided to tell her story in the hopes that the barbarity of these horrific 'honour' killings is revealed, especially as they still continue today. Souad tells of her struggles with learning a new language, and culture and learning, or even accepting her mind and body because of the emotional and physical scars she now bears.

'Burned Alive' is horrific, there is no other word to describe the barbaric torture that Souad endured, for an act that is so meaningless in parts of the western world. As I read her story I was gripped and enthralled, her words tore at my heart as I grasped the unthinkable concept of the pain and suffering she had endured. Souad is exceptionally brave to have torn through her own emotional and physical distress in order to reach people with her story.

Reading through, from her life in the Village, to her escape to Europe, I was disgusted at the behaviour of the men in her life. They would continually abuse, demoralised and taunt their women, and used them merely to provide them with more sons, who would eventually grow into the same personalities and characters as their fathers before them.

I have barely touched on the full contents of 'Burned Alive' only given you a small insight into the remarkable women Souad is, and the reason why her book was published. The story has highlighted the brutal practices that continue in such countries; including awful statistics i.e. more than five thousand women each year are killed by 'honour' killings, and these are only those known about�imagine how many more women and children are being killed for such small things.

This is a story of undeniable courage, and one I urge you to read.

Final quote - "I have never met any other burned women. As far as I know, none of them have survived."

Burned Alive is available from all good bookshops, RRP GBP 6.99, and is published by Bantam Books

--Critical Acclaim--

"The terrifying memoir of a young Palestinian women�Her ordeal reveals the scandalous treatment of women that it the real human rights abuse in the West Bank" - Sunday Telegraph

No offence but I think it is you who is ignorant of the facts.

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:28 am Post subject:

Quote:

No offence but I think it is you who is ignorant of the facts.

I'm not even going to bother educating you.......you are lost. Sorry, you are damn well ignorant if you don't know how America is beyond a doubt, even with non-reported cases not figured -- the leader in domestic violence and just plain misogyny.

Get educated, get aware but don't slap at others as being"ignorant " of the facts" when indeed, every minute women in America get slapped around and sent to the hospital and almost 4 a day die at the hands of a man, a man they once loved and trusted.

I could take any case in America and spout the same as you. Only I'd probably be more correct. Still, the correct course of action is to call it as it is, not a muslim problem but a problem of relationships within the dynamic of a given culture. Happens everywhere and a shame. Balance your arguement jr. and also grow up.

DD

Meegook

Joined: 12 Oct 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:38 am Post subject:

NAVFC wrote:

No other country on Earth has so many working to destroy it then Israel.

Poor Israel, ever the victim.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

Junior wrote:

No offence but I think it is you who is ignorant of the facts.

Junior, you quote a regrettable case of a woman who got burned by someone to state that Palestinian men burn their women, and you stated that Palestinian women treat their women as slaves. You are trying to deflect from such blatantly racist statements. It is not about Western or Eastern sources; it is about your prejudicial way of presenting things. I am highly critical of the Middle East, I believe massive reforms are in order, but I believe maligning the majority of men of any race is prejudice. You did not say some do such and such. You just made a blanket statement. No, I don't get my information simply from "Western" sources, I get them from Western, Eastern sources, and I also get it from real life examples. Again, have you ever visited Jerusalem? I have known both Israelis and Palestinians. Again, citing one case of a woman being burned to stay Palestinian men burn their sisters is common, is very unfair. I am sorry if you cannot see the prejudice behind your arguments, then I throw my hands up. I don't say this to be mean.
I think it is very bad to use an injustice against a Palestinian woman to inflict one on all its people. Very pointless, indeed.

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