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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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[quote="flotsam"][quote="CabbageTownRoyals"]There is a bar in HongDae, some 80's style music place, but I don't know the name. Anyway, I went in there, alone and SOBER, just checking it out while I was waiting for my friends.
A korean bar girl came right up to me, said, "no foreigners here"
I was so shocked. I asked to see the manager, who was also female. She could see that I was put-out and after much Konglish and poor explaining, she tried to take me to a table.
I quickly told her it was blatant racism and there was no excuse since I was respectable, sober and a single female!!! I absolutely didn't want to drink there after that, and I told her that I would be sure to give the place an honest and negative write up in the local paper. (never did, but am temped to).
Flotsam, using your logic, then it is okay for French Canadians in Quebec to refuse entry to those of African descent. This happened recently. Could one say because someone with African ancestry may cause trouble because in some cases it has happened, that it should be okay to ban someone of that complexion? No, that would be viewed as racism because there are also Caucasians who do the same. Most of the foreigners I know are quite civil. You may have your occasional unruly American soldier, soccer type hooligan who got a teaching position etc... However, this does not apply to the vast majority of foreigners. I am sure many people have seen plenty of Koreans go ballistic after imbibing soju. Your justifying of this behaviour is like justifying Caucasians not admitting Asians or African Americans for whatever reason they want to conjure up. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| charlieDD wrote: |
In the late 80's there was a big issue between Japan and other countries when saunas began putting up "No Foreigner" signs. Japan made it illegal thereafter, I understand, to do this. The owners of nice saunas just got better at keeping foreigners out by requiring membership, which was damn near impossible for a foreigner to get (like, you have to have a Japanese name to be a member; or, something like that). The signs are supposedly gone, but the xenophobic restrictions remain.
It doesn't bother me that much when I see those signs in Hongdae area. I can almost understand.
What does bother is a kind of backhanded approach some restaurant owners employ: When foreigners eat there, they give them small portions, bad service, etc. . . so they won't come again. I know a Korean guy whose mother does it at her galbi / shabu shabu place. He says that its a fact as far is his mother is concerned that if a group of foreigners come in, Koreans walking by are less likely to decide to come in when there are other similar restaurants nearby without foreigners in it. He tries to tell me "It's just business. My mother loves the foreign teachers and the foreigners who come to her church." I just roll my eyes somehwere in my mind where he can't see.
In Thailand, there are complete streets designated as "Japanese Only" club areas, and miscellaneous restaurants and other places around Thailand that cater only to Japanese tourists and will let you know this if you try to enter or use their service. |
There is a huge difference between North America and Asia. In North America, there is a huge emphasis on multi-culturalism sometimes in a way that detracts from properly teaching even the English language at an advanced level to the student bodies out there. We are on the other end. I think it is good that it is illegal to bar people from places in North America. In that sense, we have something Koreans could learn.
As far as being short-changed at restaurants. I have been treated with kindness by Koreans and they were happy to receive me in their restaurant. We are generally quiet, just looking to get some food.
I never felt I was given less food. I often could not finish my food.
So bless those who were kind and served us well, I say. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| charlieDD wrote: |
What does bother is a kind of backhanded approach some restaurant owners employ: When foreigners eat there, they give them small portions, bad service, etc. . . so they won't come again. |
yeah i've noticed that once or twice...really pathetic
There is a nite club a few doors from the goose bar in Bupyeong that won't allow in foreigners. 1 night I lambasted the doorman as a racist etc etc. Apparently "We have bars in Korea for foreigners too" gets Koreans off the racist charge. |
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huntjuliehunt
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| I walked into an open stage karaoke bar on a Saturday night when I first moved here, all by myself. It was full of Koreans and they all turned around and stared at me. Then the owner came over and said "Sorry, sorry, go out." I said "What?" He shook his hands in my face and said "No, no. You go." I was so disgusted and bitter. I walked in 3 days later, and they were low on business. The same guy came up to me and I said "Is it okay if I order drinks and sing?" He said "Okay. I remember you. Okay." Well, I have to admit, I'm a great singer, and after I sang, everyone said "Please, sing more... so good... please more." Now when I go in there, they keep it open for me until 7 am. A-hahahaha. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's definitely not always about just keeping YOU out. I've seen places with no foreigner signs on the door in Seoul and Busan. Certainly bothers me on an intellectual level, but I dont feel Im missing out by not getting to drink with these types of people.
If you agree that it's ok under free market capticalism, then surely you theoretically agree with a "gentlemen only club" as well. And what if this were to happen in the states? A "no asians club", how would that go down?
Makes me angry on two counts. One it's primitive racism, and two, Im annoyed at the foreigners who've behaved badly and made this one of the responses. Ive said it before, Korea is by and large a scum-catcher. It certainly is not the best and brightest that land here to teach, in general. |
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princess
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
I wonder how I will feel if that happens to me in the US. Yeah, i guess i will be royally be pissed off and sue their a** off.
But in Korea, as much I understand your anger, I also understand Korean's standpoint.
Once i had to meet someone in this chic cafe in Seoul and nonchalantly went inside and ordered coffee. I then went to bathroom and came back and saw cafe notice that really shocked me. The notice simply stated, "No one over 35 years old is allowed in this cafe"
Can you imagained this crap happening in the US? Of course not!
However, Koreans tend to put "Ambiance" as one of the most critical factor in choosing cafe, restaurant, club, etc. I mean, you are not going to see "Ajussi and Ajumma" in some Hongdae club. And if they do, I gurantee you that that hongdae club will be soon out of business. |
Funny thing though...back in 2003 I saw a middle-aged Korean lady dancing in Matmata...and yes...hehehe...it closed and is now M2. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Damn.
I had posted a reply which responded to a number of the saner questions addressed to me but it appears to have gotten zapped in the most recent flame flush (which seems to have backfired on the poster who was sending me threatening PMs).
MODs, may I have the sanitized version back?  |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida wrote: |
| It's a sad aspect of living in Korea. Sometimes, foreigners are not welcome. I've been turned away from restaurants in Busan but I just found someplace else. Never had any trouble in Daegu, Gwanju, Bup-Yong etc. |
Where's Gwanju?
And really, it's not. I lived in Korea for 9 years, never happened. I would like to hear if any of the people who have lived in Korea at length and can speak the language ever had this problem. Somehow I feel the Mith's and gaj's and JognoGuru's and Tibby's and Qinella's of the world have not experienced this problem to any degree. |
I can say that I have been here for a while, do speak passable hangul and have occasionally been refused entry because I am a foreigner.
Specifically I can list the "Canadian Club" in Hongdae among the few I have been denied entry to AND I do not get piss drunk so that was NOT as issue. |
I guess the owner doesn't understand irony. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Adventurer"][quote="flotsam"]
| CabbageTownRoyals wrote: |
There is a bar in HongDae, some 80's style music place, but I don't know the name. Anyway, I went in there, alone and SOBER, just checking it out while I was waiting for my friends.
A korean bar girl came right up to me, said, "no foreigners here"
I was so shocked. I asked to see the manager, who was also female. She could see that I was put-out and after much Konglish and poor explaining, she tried to take me to a table.
I quickly told her it was blatant racism and there was no excuse since I was respectable, sober and a single female!!! I absolutely didn't want to drink there after that, and I told her that I would be sure to give the place an honest and negative write up in the local paper. (never did, but am temped to).
Flotsam, using your logic, then it is okay for French Canadians in Quebec to refuse entry to those of African descent. This happened recently. Could one say because someone with African ancestry may cause trouble because in some cases it has happened, that it should be okay to ban someone of that complexion? No, that would be viewed as racism because there are also Caucasians who do the same. Most of the foreigners I know are quite civil. You may have your occasional unruly American soldier, soccer type hooligan who got a teaching position etc... However, this does not apply to the vast majority of foreigners. I am sure many people have seen plenty of Koreans go ballistic after imbibing soju. Your justifying of this behaviour is like justifying Caucasians not admitting Asians or African Americans for whatever reason they want to conjure up. |
Actually, if you're talking about the same incident I'm thinking of, it happened in Alberta. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| It's racist and it's wrong, but if you were a Korean bar owner and you had whites routinely come in already hammered, about a 4-1 guy-girl ratio, never order anju and only buy the cheapest draught beer, start fights with each other and act like loud, obnoxious pricks, wouldn't you want to do something like this if you could get away with it? |
Sorry, but that still makes it discrimination. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I know the Korean constitution mentions protection against discrimination. Are F-5 visa holders subject to protection under Korean law against discrimination? We should get together and try to enter such bars, camera in hand to document evidence, and file complaints to the proper authorities after being refused entry. |
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hubba bubba
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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We all know Koreans are a very racist people. We also know that racism is bad. What's the point here?
If I owned a bar, Korean or not, I would probably want to keep all the drunk ash-hole military guys out. And the cheap teachers who think they don't have to buy anju cuz they're white. |
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periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
There's a bar in Hongdae that has a big sign saying:
"FOREIGNERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER HERE.
THANK YOU.
BAR MADE"
(the name of the bar is "Bar Made")
I even got a picture of the sign, but I don't know how to post it.
So I went in anyway of course, and the waitress came over and told us we had to go.
I remember a few months ago someone posted about a bar that wouldn't allow Nigerians in- I wonder if this thread will arouse the same level of indignation? |
Did u ask why? I don't understand how this is acceptable. Incidentally, my gay friend wasn't allowed to a Korean-only gay bar, but I figured it was a gay thing. =( |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I once saw a sign in a Hondae club that said "Sorry, no G.I.s allowed because of previous incidents". I thought that policy was unfair, but could understand a bit if some G.I.s had broken the noses of some of the club's regular customers.
I think the club onwers have a unique problem with G.Is who can't hold their liquor. These guys are above Korean law. The Korean cops can't do a thing.
They can arrest English teachers though and perhaps nulify your visa so it's pretty hard to justify excluding non G.I. foreigners.
The only rational excuse would come from a business point of view. Korean male customers don't like to compete with the foreigners for girls so on to the next club they go. And I'll bet a lot of these Korean guys are regulars.
Last edited by Dev on Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand, any clubs having no foreigners policies gives this country an ugly image. It wouldn't be a bad idea to write complaint letters to city hall on this topic. The tolerance of this gives Korean racists encouragement. |
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