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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| alcohol + posting = incoherence |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| alcohol + posting = incoherence |
You are correct, so stop posting. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| You know, Repubs haven't played the whiner role since bubba left office. |
No, they've played the hatemongering, fearmongering, lying, scum sucking pig role. And very, very well. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| You know, Repubs haven't played the whiner role since bubba left office. |
No, they've played the hatemongering, fearmongering, lying, scum sucking pig role. And very, very well. |
I can't disagree with you except for the scum-sucking pig part. That's a little over the top. But, hey, the Dems are poised to take the reigns and we'll all be saying the same about them in....ohhhhh.....about 4-8 years. Except maybe you. You'll still be crying about Bush and the 2000 election. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
Well, lets be honest here.
Once the Dems gain power, they'll be every bit as ruthlessly cut-throat as the Republicans. And they WILL NOT ditch the dictator-like powers the Republicans have handed their president. Phones will still be tapped, citizens will simply disappear when seens as an enemy of the state, the national guard will still remain the president's private police force, and martial law can be declared on a whim.
As well, pulling out of Iraq hands the nation over to Iran, but staying just sends more soldiers to do little more than fill body bags.
The Dems have gained a lot of power as well as a clusterfuck of a situation, and since a politician is a politician, things aren't going to be fixed up any time soon. |
Frankly, I think the damage that Bush has done to America will not be reversed by the Democrats unless they close down Guantanamo, spell out a time-table for withdrawing the troops from Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan instead and Bin Ladin, raise the minimum wage, repeal some of the past draconian laws including laws that are probably unconstitutional like suspending habeas corpus.
Also, relations have to be repaired with allies in Europe and parts of the Middle East. An America that got involved in a war on two fronts found itself swamped in ADHD fashion with the Middle East. They put way too much on their plate. They need to look at the spending of the Pentagon, examine the Department of Homeland Security's bloated budget etc.... The gamble for empire has seriously wounded the U.S. in the globe. Too many people don't realize it. That war was the last thing that was needed. If the democrats were as vindictive, then they would impeach George Bush. I believe he deserves it, but I don't think the country can afford it and the public doesn't deserve any weakening of the country. There is so much work to be done. I don't envy the democrats. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
Well, lets be honest here.
Once the Dems gain power, they'll be every bit as ruthlessly cut-throat as the Republicans. And they WILL NOT ditch the dictator-like powers the Republicans have handed their president. Phones will still be tapped, citizens will simply disappear when seens as an enemy of the state, the national guard will still remain the president's private police force, and martial law can be declared on a whim.
As well, pulling out of Iraq hands the nation over to Iran, but staying just sends more soldiers to do little more than fill body bags.
The Dems have gained a lot of power as well as a clusterfuck of a situation, and since a politician is a politician, things aren't going to be fixed up any time soon. |
Frankly, I think the damage that Bush has done to America will not be reversed by the Democrats unless they close down Guantanamo, spell out a time-table for withdrawing the troops from Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan instead and Bin Ladin, raise the minimum wage, repeal some of the past draconian laws including laws that are probably unconstitutional like suspending habeas corpus.
Also, relations have to be repaired with allies in Europe and parts of the Middle East. An America that got involved in a war on two fronts and then became paralyzed when it came to dealing with Lebanon and the Arab-Israeli conflict. They put way too much on their plate. They need to look at the spending of the Pentagon, examine the Department of Homeland Security's bloated budget etc.... The gamble for empire has seriously wounded the U.S. in the globe. Too many people don't realize it. America is in danger. The democrats need to get to work. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| That war was the last thing that was needed. If the democrats were as vindictive, then they would impeach George Bush. I believe he deserves it, but I don't think the country can afford it and the public doesn't deserve any weakening of the country. There is so much work to be done. I don't envy the democrats. |
Make no mistake, the Dems ARE as vindictive and their base will (and already are) calling for impeachment of Bush. I don't envy the Dems either, simply because they are no more capable of governing than the clowns they are replacing. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| But, hey, the Dems are poised to take the reigns and we'll all be saying the same about them in....ohhhhh.....about 4-8 years. |
And I agree with this.
Have we finally reached the bipartisan era? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| twg wrote: |
Well, lets be honest here.
Once the Dems gain power, they'll be every bit as ruthlessly cut-throat as the Republicans. And they WILL NOT ditch the dictator-like powers the Republicans have handed their president. Phones will still be tapped, citizens will simply disappear when seens as an enemy of the state, the national guard will still remain the president's private police force, and martial law can be declared on a whim.
As well, pulling out of Iraq hands the nation over to Iran, but staying just sends more soldiers to do little more than fill body bags.
The Dems have gained a lot of power as well as a clusterfuck of a situation, and since a politician is a politician, things aren't going to be fixed up any time soon. |
Frankly, I think the damage that Bush has done to America will not be reversed by the Democrats unless they close down Guantanamo, spell out a time-table for withdrawing the troops from Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan instead and Bin Ladin, raise the minimum wage, repeal some of the past draconian laws including laws that are probably unconstitutional like suspending habeas corpus.
Also, relations have to be repaired with allies in Europe and parts of the Middle East. An America that got involved in a war on two fronts found itself swamped in ADHD fashion with the Middle East. They put way too much on their plate. They need to look at the spending of the Pentagon, examine the Department of Homeland Security's bloated budget etc.... The gamble for empire has seriously wounded the U.S. in the globe. Too many people don't realize it. That war was the last thing that was needed. If the democrats were as vindictive, then they would impeach George Bush. I believe he deserves it, but I don't think the country can afford it and the public doesn't deserve any weakening of the country. There is so much work to be done. I don't envy the democrats. |
Good response, so I won't bother with wannabe. 
However, I disagree about the impeachment. Rule of law, to be re-established, requires USE of law. The Republicans showed us the absolute worst use of the Constitutional protections, then set about dismantling them. They are so aware they have acted against the Constitution that they enacted laws protecting themselves *retroactively.* As both an example of how the Constitution SHOULD be respected, and as a discouragement to future misadventurers, impeachment should go forward. If we agree to playing nice in the face of the most heinous crimes against America by any administration thus far, and probably for hundreds of years, if not millenia, into the future, we must exercise the muscle of the Constitution. If we do not, this WILL happen again because future abusers of our rights will rightly assume we, the people, do not have the will power to protect that which is most sacred to us: our freedom.
It is simple enough to pardon or reduce sentences to show mercy while also protecting the Constitution and the true source of America's strength: we, the people. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| That war was the last thing that was needed. If the democrats were as vindictive, then they would impeach George Bush. I believe he deserves it, but I don't think the country can afford it and the public doesn't deserve any weakening of the country. There is so much work to be done. I don't envy the democrats. |
Make no mistake, the Dems ARE as vindictive and their base will (and already are) calling for impeachment of Bush. I don't envy the Dems either, simply because they are no more capable of governing than the clowns they are replacing. |
I agree to some degree with the sentiment that you are trying, poorly, to illustrate: a politician is a politician is a politician. We get it. But you are making claims that are false, and I know you know you are doing so. We all know. OK, so you are stung by the results of the election, but painting the Dems with the exact same brush as the Repubs of the last 12 eyars is ridiculos. Give us ANY example of that in the last thirty years. Nixon? Deserved. Clinton? Ridiculous. Bush? Beyond deserved. And I would have said the same about LBJ had I been a voter and known about Tonkin Gulf.
The call for impeachment is justified and necessary. The Bush Cadre have eviscerated the Constitution and we, the people, wo aRE the United States of America.
1. Lying to go into war that had NO justification.
2. Manslaughter, at minimum, murder at maximum, of nearly 3,000 Americans in an illegal, immoral, unjust war for political and monetary gain.
3. Wire tapping.
4. Torture.
5. Illegal renditions.
6. Suspension of habeus corpus.
7. Usurping the powers of congress via signing statements.
8. Blatant enrichment of cronies via unjust war, i.e., no-bid contracts to companies connected to his own family.
Any one of the above is an impeachable offense. All together are overwhelming. To let this go as nothing more than politics leaves the Constitution at risk of attack at any time by anyone. It would, undoubtedly, lead Democrats to believe, once drunk with power, that they were as equally insulated from the consequences of their actions as are the Repubs now. This would be a massive mistake.
Further, if the President and his party can rape the Constitution and the people of the US with impunity, what reason does any citizen have to follow the law? Where do you draw that line? If the people of the US do not respect what the US is, if they do not respect the Constiution and the Bill of Rights... we are all lost. We will descend into lawless chaos. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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There is no question that an investigation leading to impeachment should go forward. Of course, actual impeachment depends upon establishing enough evidence. Bush deserves it, but can enough evidence be uncovered to secure impeachment.
This was all discussed long ago on another thread. I expected the Dems to take over both houses then, and now we'll get to see if they can come up with enough evidence for impeachment. The hearings are sure to come. Watch for an independent counsel to be appointed.
If the hearings can raise enough public outrage, then an Independent counsel investigation and impeachment can go forward. Polite, well written, logical letters to your representatives and to the media will do more to get this going than will writing here.
(As to Clinton though, he deserved to be impeached. He sold his office to the highest bidder throughout his career in Little Rock. Hillary and the Rose Law Firm were the bagmen. That's why the Rose Law Firm failed. Monica was the convenient side show that saved him. Clinton was a dirty Governor just like Spiro Agnew. Still, all of this is water under the bridge and Bush's Impeachment should be considered without regard to previous presidents.)
Last edited by ontheway on Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 2. Manslaughter, at minimum, murder at maximum, of nearly 3,000 Americans in an illegal, immoral, unjust war for political and monetary gain. |
I generally agree with your overall position but please keep it real. The deaths of soldiers in a declared war are not subject to the laws of manslaughter or muder and you know this. The case is strong without these exagerations that just make liberal look bad. Leave the shrill exagerations to Anne Coulter. The dems have to look better than the repubs, and not allow them to do what they want to do so badly, which is characterise the dems as "flaky". |
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