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R-Seoul
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: your place
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 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: Salaryman in Korea = early grave |
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Some people have asked me what it's like to work in a Korean office so I thought I�d share something that happened this morning.
*At circa 10:30am one of my reports comes up to me wearing his coat*
- 'Okay R-Seoul I�m going now.'
- ' It's 10:30 in the morning, what do you mean you're going?'
- 'Oh I didn't go home last night'
- 'You mean you've been at work for the past 25 hours?!?'
- 'Yes, see you tomorrow'
*he leaves, looking a bit tired I might add*
I relate story to other people in office, nobody is surprised in fact general consensus is 'Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do'
Incidentally our company doesn't pay overtime... |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Or he was just out all night drinking with the boss!!  |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| you know, alot of americans pull all nighters in college and in the workplace. Especially in the computer industry. Coding for 33 hours to finish a project by deadline is a common practice all over the world, not just Korea. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mateomiguel wrote: |
| you know, alot of americans pull all nighters in college and in the workplace. Especially in the computer industry. Coding for 33 hours to finish a project by deadline is a common practice all over the world, not just Korea. |
Whilst this might be true, there is a phenomenon in Korea I like to call 'perceived diligence'. This means that although said co-worker may have spent all night in the office, the real question lies with what he/she actually accomplished in that time. I've seen this time and time again with both my students and co-workers. My students often tell me they've spent 'all night' in the library, but I know a good portion of that time is spent sleeping, text messaging or eating Chinese food (I've seen it first hand, trust me). I also remember an incident way back, when I first came to Korea, working at a hagwon that had Saturday classes. Myself and some of the other foreign teachers complained about having to come in on Saturdays, to which the head teacher replied "Yes, but you're not here ALL day long." To which I said, "Yes, you might be here for longer during the day, but you mostly sit in the teachers room yakking and eating kimbap." Which was what she did.
The head teacher didn't talk to me for a while after that.
The point is, a lot of Koreans, students and professionals alike, will regularly put in long hours, but what they actually do during those long hours can sometimes be suspect. You should see the administration staff at my uni. They give new meaning to 'milking it'.
I'm not usually one to bash on Korea or Koreans, quite the opposite (I've been accused by many on this board in the past for being an 'apologist') but in this case I stand by what I say. I've been here long enough to know what I'm talking about. |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
| I'm not usually one to bash on Korea or Koreans, quite the opposite (I've been accused by many on this board in the past for being an 'apologist') but in this case I stand by what I say. I've been here long enough to know what I'm talking about. |
Agreed.
My supervisors will scoff when I insist upon doing 30 minutes of planning and prep before a project while they just dive in, only to stand baffled when I've accomplished twice as much in half the time. They complain when I take short breaks to rest my eyes or just stretch, then wonder why I'm not completely wiped out at the end of the day. They routinely insist upon complicating the simplest of tasks, only to realize that it didn't really matter if we printed up the letters on the sign or individually hand drew them and cut them out one-by-one.
The Koreans I know are some of the hardest working people I've ever met. It's a shame there is no emphasis placed on efficiency here. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
I also remember an incident way back, when I first came to Korea, working at a hagwon that had Saturday classes. Myself and some of the other foreign teachers complained about having to come in on Saturdays, to which the head teacher replied "Yes, but you're not here ALL day long." To which I said, "Yes, you might be here for longer during the day, but you mostly sit in the teachers room yakking and eating kimbap." Which was what she did.
The head teacher didn't talk to me for a while after that. |
| seoulsucker wrote: |
| The Koreans I know are some of the hardest working people I've ever met. It's a shame there is no emphasis placed on efficiency here. |
Agreed. I see examples of this all the time too. |
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kat2
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Busan, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I think "hard-working" is the wrong word. "dedicated to work" maybe. They do spend a ridiculous amount of time at work.They don't do much work while they are at work from what I've seen though. Lot of reading the paper, playing computer games, drinking coffee. Do that in America, get fired. Here, you're the boss! |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
Whilst this might be true, there is a phenomenon in Korea I like to call 'perceived diligence'. |
I totally agree with indytrucks here. Completely, 100% agree. He speaks the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts!
That said, I recommend that you don't bring this up with your co-workers. They will find it insulting and take it that you mean to say "they don't work hard." Which is sort of true, but not fully... they just don't manage their time well. Yeah, sleeping, eating kimbap, waiting around, doing nothing... that's not working in our vocabulary. Simply "being at work" is not really working. And that's that! |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| That said, I recommend that you don't bring this up with your co-workers. They will find it insulting and take it that you mean to say "they don't work hard." |
The real truth is that Koreans don't manage their free time well. They could live fuller lives if they did their work and went home. It would probably be better for their health and their families. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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That is just a bad practice and it happens too often here.
As for the comment about the US and students or IT workers...it has validity.
Actually, many private sector jobs ask employees to put in major overtime on a regular basis...but this is usually paid for.... |
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kotakji
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Yep I have to concur, Id probably fall in the "apologist" category in most areas of debate here, but this time you guys are spot on. Sometimes I have to internally roll my eyes when my in-laws comment on me being lazy. Granted I am, but my laziness has always fueled me to be efficient and innovative when I am working =)
I often feel alot of pity for my in laws that put in 80-100+ hours/ 6-7 days a week/ week in week out, and yet make little progress either in their own financial situation or in improving their career. |
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leebumlik69
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: DiRectly above you. Pissing Down
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| seoulsucker wrote: |
| indytrucks wrote: |
| I'm not usually one to bash on Korea or Koreans, quite the opposite (I've been accused by many on this board in the past for being an 'apologist') but in this case I stand by what I say. I've been here long enough to know what I'm talking about. |
Agreed.
My supervisors will scoff when I insist upon doing 30 minutes of planning and prep before a project while they just dive in, only to stand baffled when I've accomplished twice as much in half the time. They complain when I take short breaks to rest my eyes or just stretch, then wonder why I'm not completely wiped out at the end of the day. They routinely insist upon complicating the simplest of tasks, only to realize that it didn't really matter if we printed up the letters on the sign or individually hand drew them and cut them out one-by-one.
The Koreans I know are some of the hardest working people I've ever met. It's a shame there is no emphasis placed on efficiency here. |
Wow, I had to comment on this. I can't say too much for fear of losing anonymity but I've seen first hand Western formal intervention saving our place from being a complete joke.
*what the heck am I doing here thought* flashed through my head again..oh the women..phwew |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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The time spent at school or at work is all for face. It's a well known fact in my husband's office that you don't leave until your boss leaves. If he stays until 12am, you stay until 12am. Even if you play Pong on your computer until he leaves  I try to respect the culture, but this is just a complete waste! |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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It's gotta be painful and stressful not being able to go home from work while having nothing to do.
It's not dedication nor hard working. It's idiocy. |
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