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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| myopic and non-science based views of drugs |
You said it. |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I've been non drinker for a long time now.
It is survival of the fittest. Fittest doesn't just mean physical adaptaion but it can also mean mental adaptation. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Vancouver's safe injection site successful: study |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| This will drive the Conservatives and the American's crazy. |
Often times I don't get your all-out ignorance of the U.S... this will drive the Americans crazy.
Americans have had these things for the last 13 years.. San Francisco began the first 'needle-exchange' program in U.S. with the same purpose - to slow down AIDS among addicts in 1993.
http://www.sfaf.org/prevention/needleexchange/
Was that also your posts about how progressive Canada was with recent anti-smoking laws in bars.. another one a decade after California had done it?
Its nice to have warm nationalistic feelings about Canada and all.. but before you assume its going to drive 'the Americans' crazy.. you might want to research so you know they haven't already done it and been doing it a decade or two before. I think its more that kind of ignorance/arrogance that drives some of us crazy.
Outside of that.. kudos to Vancouver. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Except you American's don't have the Canadian "Drug Czar" coming to your country and threatening it with massive financial and trade retaliation if you pass a law that loosens foolish drug laws, we do. The DEA has come to this country and helped arrest people it considers criminals, even if they aren't in Canada. I wouldn't paint with one brush if we didn't have to put up with the American Government telling us how to live. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Wrench wrote: |
I've been non drinker for a long time now.
It is survival of the fittest. Fittest doesn't just mean physical adaptaion but it can also mean mental adaptation. |
You said you got HELP.
Get it? |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Except you American's don't have the Canadian "Drug Czar" coming to your country and threatening it with massive financial and trade retaliation if you pass a law that loosens foolish drug laws, we do. The DEA has come to this country and helped arrest people it considers criminals, even if they aren't in Canada. I wouldn't paint with one brush if we didn't have to put up with the American Government telling us how to live. |
Well.. for your own bloodpressure.. you'll be happy to know the DEA won't be raiding and making arrests in a social program that 'reduces AIDS in addicts' in Vancouver.
Particularly when such programs have existed all over the U.S. and have for a decade or two.
Good luck with your own elected leaders though. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: |
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http://www.dpna.org/resources/current/10-01-4.htm
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| Calling the project "state-sponsored suicide," Walters called the site a waste of resources that should go to treatment and said any policy making life easier for drug users will only attract more addicts. |
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Slep
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: |
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OH
Don't forget about the constant threat of 'trade repercussions' any time we talk responsible drug policy or any independent policy.
I'm surprised our legalizing gay marriage didn't result in a security conundrum. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Vancouver's safe injection site successful: study |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Americans have had these things for the last 13 years.. San Francisco began the first 'needle-exchange' program in U.S. with the same purpose - to slow down AIDS among addicts in 1993.
http://www.sfaf.org/prevention/needleexchange/ |
Correction:
| Quote: |
Needle Exchange in North America
The first person to distribute injection equipment publicly in the United States was Jon Parker, a former injection drug user. Parker was earning his master's degree in public health at Yale University in New Haven, Conn., when one of his professors commented that addicts should not be the focus of HIV prevention efforts because they would not change their behavior. This comment angered Parker so much that he began meeting with injection drug users to warn them of the dangers of HIV transmission. At one of these meetings in Boston, Mass., in late 1986, a user brought in seven sterile syringes and gave them to others. In November 1986, Parker began distributing--and later exchanging--needles and syringes on the streets of New Haven and Boston, Mass. |
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| The first needle exchange program to operate with some community consensus was organized by Dave Purchase in Tacoma, Wash. In April 1988, Purchase, an activist with extensive experience in directing drug rehabilitation programs, informed the mayor, public officials, and others whom he thought might be politically affected that he planned to begin a program. In August of that year, he set up a table in downtown Tacoma to exchange needles and syringes. |
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| In November 1988, two additional exchange programs emerged, one in San Francisco and the other in New York City. San Francisco's Prevention Point opened on the Day of the Dead--November 2, 1988. |
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| Although the City and County of San Francisco tolerate Prevention Point, it is illegal according to state law. On March 12, 1993, Mayor Frank Jordon declared a state of public-health emergency in San Francisco, a move that gives him the power to legalize the needle exchange program and provide funds to it. State authorities have not challenged this action. |
http://www.aegis.com/law/journals/1993/HKFNE009.html |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| So someone was talking out of there ass on this board???? NO, say it isn't so! |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Calling the project "state-sponsored suicide," Walters called the site a waste of resources that should go to treatment and said any policy making life easier for drug users will only attract more addicts. |
This is typical conservative thinking that is based on an incorrect understanding of the human being. The presumtion here is that more people would chose to be an addict if the law made it easier to be an addict. This is false. People don't "chose" be become an addict. It's not an active choice. It's not like there are a whole bunch of people out there who would like to be heroin addicts but refrain because the laws are too harsh, thinking to themselves, gosh I'd really like to destroy my life with herion but it seems just to inconvenient right now, but maybe if they ease up on the laws a bit I'll give it a go. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Calling the project "state-sponsored suicide," Walters called the site a waste of resources that should go to treatment and said any policy making life easier for drug users will only attract more addicts. |
This is typical conservative thinking that is based on an incorrect understanding of the human being. The presumtion here is that more people would chose to be an addict if the law made it easier to be an addict. This is false. People don't "chose" be become an addict. It's not an active choice. It's not like there are a whole bunch of people out there who would like to be heroin addicts but refrain because the laws are too harsh, thinking to themselves, gosh I'd really like to destroy my life with herion but it seems just to inconvenient right now, but maybe if they ease up on the laws a bit I'll give it a go. |
The fact that you had to point that out is sad. It is just so obvious what Satori said is true. |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Calling the project "state-sponsored suicide," Walters called the site a waste of resources that should go to treatment and said any policy making life easier for drug users will only attract more addicts. |
This is typical conservative thinking that is based on an incorrect understanding of the human being. The presumtion here is that more people would chose to be an addict if the law made it easier to be an addict. This is false. People don't "chose" be become an addict. It's not an active choice. It's not like there are a whole bunch of people out there who would like to be heroin addicts but refrain because the laws are too harsh, thinking to themselves, gosh I'd really like to destroy my life with herion but it seems just to inconvenient right now, but maybe if they ease up on the laws a bit I'll give it a go. |
So what your saying is that People DON'T choose to stick a needle in their arm? The needle just slips and sticks in their arm by itself? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Wrench wrote: |
So what your saying is that People DON'T choose to stick a needle in their arm? The needle just slips and sticks in their arm by itself? |
You know what he means, and you are trying to focus away from it. Addiction is a physical thing. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not one to disagree with a fellow leftist or centrist, but I disagree with the idea that people don't "choose to become addicts". At some point in the past that may have been true, but I think with every major drug on the market today, legal or otherwise, people KNOW that there are addictive properties to these substances, though every substance may not have the same level of addictiveness.
For instance, anyone under the age of let's say 30 who is a smoker MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO BECOME AN ADDICT. You had to be fucking retarded to NOT know about that element of cigarettes if you're under 30, especially if you grew up in North America or Europe.
I'd say the same goes for heroine. The two depictions or bits of info a person would have seen about heorine before trying it are A) they're high and it feels good, B) the addict looking like hell.
Just to be clear, I'm FOR safe injection sites, but I don't agree with the idea that people don't 'choose' addiction. |
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