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Is Occidentalism a good source of info?
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doggyji



Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Is Occidentalism a good source of info? Reply with quote

What's your take on the "occidentalism" site? It's an interesting one.

http://www.occidentalism.org

I have noticed some people here use that as a trustworthy source of information. So I read through several pages. As he claims to be a white Australian, I was a bit surprised because some terms he used are exactly what anti-Korean Japanese 2-Channelers use. Then, I found he's a very very fluent Japanese speaker who may surf the Japanese internet quite a lot. Those with enormous historical knowledge about East Asia or Korea/Japan relations and superb language abilities, what do you think about the site? Of course, obviously that site is full of his personal agendas when it comes to the subject selection. But what about the basic facts in general? Does it seem he ever omits or selects things that only serve his pre-determined purpose? Just curious what some of you knowledgable guys think. I'm far from being a Korean history expert. I'm actually against the idea of the Korean governmental organization making a single history textbook for all high school students.

The author guy seems to be trying to be (seen) objective and one second later he's living in a little fantasy world. This one is quite funny. They are having their own Korea-bashing festival on the comments for such a nonsense. "ooga ooga, Koreans are at it again."

http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=420#comments

Anyeone can go out and ask 1000 Koreans.

"Is Confucius Chinese? Isn't he Korean actually?"

I guarantee you 999 or 1000 will give you "WTF? Rolling Eyes" I tried hard but couldn't find any source that any single Korean claims so. Oh yeah, here's one article by a Chinese professor here who says it started from the false report by some Chinese media. Korea claims the whole Chinese letters and Chinese medicine as their own? Letters? Anything that has any little to do was those printing types. Chinese medicine? It was one Korean medicine book "동의보감" as a record that was published 400 years ago. This is what exactly they do. Word play and subtle misleading. Maybe some people just believe the whole thing without any doubt as it's just anti-Korean and it just gives them enormous orgasm. Especially those who live in their own small world and don't have any real chance to interact with many sane Koreans.

http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&office_id=021&article_id=0000169399&section_id=110&menu_id=110

Now on that occidentalism page, even watch that yellow Japanese TV show based on these fake things that didn't even exist. It's a dizzy world full of bandwagons. The author might have thought this topic fits his agenda and picked it. He might be right in many things he claims but I personally sense his site is quite a biased one with a good appearance.
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Occidentalism a good source of info? Reply with quote

doggyji wrote:
Of course, obviously that site is full of his personal agendas when it comes to the subject selection. But what about the basic facts in general? Does it seem he ever omits or selects things that only serve his pre-determined purpose?


Do you know any news source that doesn't do this?
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jaganath69



Joined: 17 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to read it for a bit of a giggle, but some of the Japanese right wing nationalist stuff he sources to justify his mainly anti-Korean bias is just beyond the pale.
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doggyji



Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Occidentalism a good source of info? Reply with quote

ajgeddes wrote:
doggyji wrote:
Of course, obviously that site is full of his personal agendas when it comes to the subject selection. But what about the basic facts in general? Does it seem he ever omits or selects things that only serve his pre-determined purpose?


Do you know any news source that doesn't do this?
What I mean is that he can present both views equally and examine the whole claims of both parties from the 3rd person. But it seems he's just mainly focusing on what's wrong with the Korean claim. This makes no sense?
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Occidentalism a good source of info? Reply with quote

doggyji wrote:
ajgeddes wrote:
doggyji wrote:
Of course, obviously that site is full of his personal agendas when it comes to the subject selection. But what about the basic facts in general? Does it seem he ever omits or selects things that only serve his pre-determined purpose?


Do you know any news source that doesn't do this?
What I mean is that he can present both views equally and examine the whole claims of both parties from the 3rd person. But it seems he's just mainly focusing on what's wrong with the Korean claim. This makes no sense?


I understand what you are saying, but basically every news source, or information source, is going to be biased. I have only read the site a few times, and he does have some good info. Why don't you try to send him some info contradicting what he says and see what he does with it.
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doggyji



Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Occidentalism a good source of info? Reply with quote

ajgeddes wrote:
doggyji wrote:
ajgeddes wrote:
doggyji wrote:
Of course, obviously that site is full of his personal agendas when it comes to the subject selection. But what about the basic facts in general? Does it seem he ever omits or selects things that only serve his pre-determined purpose?


Do you know any news source that doesn't do this?
What I mean is that he can present both views equally and examine the whole claims of both parties from the 3rd person. But it seems he's just mainly focusing on what's wrong with the Korean claim. This makes no sense?


I understand what you are saying, but basically every news source, or information source, is going to be biased. I have only read the site a few times, and he does have some good info. Why don't you try to send him some info contradicting what he says and see what he does with it.
Okay, I understand that. I'm not really interested in talking to him. I have read many of his responses on that site already and I got enough of it. No big point in correcting him about this stuff. I just wanted to know what people on Dave's think about the site.
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Occidentalism a good source of info? Reply with quote

doggyji wrote:
ajgeddes wrote:
doggyji wrote:
ajgeddes wrote:
doggyji wrote:
Of course, obviously that site is full of his personal agendas when it comes to the subject selection. But what about the basic facts in general? Does it seem he ever omits or selects things that only serve his pre-determined purpose?


Do you know any news source that doesn't do this?
What I mean is that he can present both views equally and examine the whole claims of both parties from the 3rd person. But it seems he's just mainly focusing on what's wrong with the Korean claim. This makes no sense?


I understand what you are saying, but basically every news source, or information source, is going to be biased. I have only read the site a few times, and he does have some good info. Why don't you try to send him some info contradicting what he says and see what he does with it.
Okay, I understand that. I'm not really interested in talking to him. I have read many of his responses on that site already and I got enough of it. No big point in correcting him about this stuff. I just wanted to know what people on Dave's think about the site.


Ah, okay. Yeah, I rarely read it. To be quite honest, I am sick of all the Korea vs. Japan stuff these days, so it just doesn't interest me to read it.
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Zolt



Joined: 18 May 2006

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a quick look at his site and the series he did on Dokdo was serious and well documented, although the interpretations are a bit biased.

The rest looks more like random stuff picked off the airwaves or the net. The "confucius is korean" thing is just a goofy japanese program for the negative IQ's. I can imagine some inebriated korean taxi driver, anti FTA protester or conecerned netizen spewing that shit, but your average korean would just go WTF??

If the koreans picked up all the stuff japanese right-wingers spew all the time, we'd be having a bloodbath. I was in japan just last week and they must have been having some kind of rally in Osaka, there were those black vans spewing nationalist propaganda all over the place. A chilling sight really.
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jaganath69



Joined: 17 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zolt wrote:
I had a quick look at his site and the series he did on Dokdo was serious and well documented, although the interpretations are a bit biased.

The rest looks more like random stuff picked off the airwaves or the net. The "confucius is korean" thing is just a goofy japanese program for the negative IQ's. I can imagine some inebriated korean taxi driver, anti FTA protester or conecerned netizen spewing that *beep*, but your average korean would just go WTF??

If the koreans picked up all the stuff japanese right-wingers spew all the time, we'd be having a bloodbath. I was in japan just last week and they must have been having some kind of rally in Osaka, there were those black vans spewing nationalist propaganda all over the place. A chilling sight really.


The Dokdo stuff was good because it was largely done by the Bevers guy who is something approaching a serious scholar. Matt, on the other hand has a serious hardon for Koreans and Muslims, amongst others, and couldn't be trusted to be balanced if his life depended on it.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaganath69 wrote:
Zolt wrote:
I had a quick look at his site and the series he did on Dokdo was serious and well documented, although the interpretations are a bit biased.

The rest looks more like random stuff picked off the airwaves or the net. The "confucius is korean" thing is just a goofy japanese program for the negative IQ's. I can imagine some inebriated korean taxi driver, anti FTA protester or conecerned netizen spewing that *beep*, but your average korean would just go WTF??

If the koreans picked up all the stuff japanese right-wingers spew all the time, we'd be having a bloodbath. I was in japan just last week and they must have been having some kind of rally in Osaka, there were those black vans spewing nationalist propaganda all over the place. A chilling sight really.


The Dokdo stuff was good because it was largely done by the Bevers guy who is something approaching a serious scholar. Matt, on the other hand has a serious hardon for Koreans and Muslims, amongst others, and couldn't be trusted to be balanced if his life depended on it.


Yeah, I would simply use that site as a jumping off point (no, not suicide). When i see information there, I note it - for futher study. That's about it.

Makes for interesting conversation topics though Shocked
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shakuhachi



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi doggyji, I am the guy from Occidentalism. I do not pretend to be objective, although I would like to be one day. That would be transcending human existence, probably.

doggyji wrote:
The author guy seems to be trying to be (seen) objective and one second later he's living in a little fantasy world. This one is quite funny. They are having their own Korea-bashing festival on the comments for such a nonsense. "ooga ooga, Koreans are at it again."

http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=420#comments

Anyeone can go out and ask 1000 Koreans.

"Is Confucius Chinese? Isn't he Korean actually?"

I guarantee you 999 or 1000 will give you "WTF? Rolling Eyes" I tried hard but couldn't find any source that any single Korean claims so. Oh yeah, here's one article by a Chinese professor here who says it started from the false report by some Chinese media. Korea claims the whole Chinese letters and Chinese medicine as their own? Letters? Anything that has any little to do was those printing types. Chinese medicine? It was one Korean medicine book "동의보감" as a record that was published 400 years ago. This is what exactly they do. Word play and subtle misleading. Maybe some people just believe the whole thing without any doubt as it's just anti-Korean and it just gives them enormous orgasm. Especially those who live in their own small world and don't have any real chance to interact with many sane Koreans.


Actually, the "Confucius is Korean" claim is a new claim, not a pre-existing one. I could of explained better in the main post (although I do in the comments) that "Confucius is Korean" is not a commonly held belief in Korea. Then again, the title of the post was "now Confucius is Korean", which should indicate that he was not thought to be in the past.

The Confucius as Korean idea comes from the Korean claim that Korea used to be much larger that it is now, and that Shandong province in China used to be part of a Korean kingdom. Confucius is from Shandong province, and if Shandong province is part of a Korean kingdom, then Confucius must be Korean. That is the assumption that the Koreans making the claim are working on.

Most Koreans do not think that Confucius is Korean because the claim that he is Korean has just been made. Who knows, it may just be a matter of time before many Koreans think so. Many Koreans also think that Karate, Kendo, Sushi, etc, also come from Korea as well.

A seach for 'Confucius is Korean' (공자는 한국인) comes up with plenty of hits on Korean search engine Naver.

doggyji wrote:
http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&office_id=021&article_id=0000169399&section_id=110&menu_id=110


I have to admit that this part of the article you linked -

사실 한국의 유네스코 유산 신청은 출간 400주년을 맞은 한의학 경전 �동의보감� 한권으로, 신청한 항목도 �문화유산�이 아 니라 세계기록유산으로 일컬어지는 �기록유산�이다. 일종의 오해 가 빚어진 것이다.

Does put a more nuanced meaning to what the Chinese netizens were saying about the registration of Chinese medicine.

doggyji wrote:
Now on that occidentalism page, even watch that yellow Japanese TV show based on these fake things that didn't even exist. It's a dizzy world full of bandwagons. The author might have thought this topic fits his agenda and picked it. He might be right in many things he claims but I personally sense his site is quite a biased one with a good appearance.


You should come on the site and participate in the commentary. I am certainly aware of your site. If I am wrong about something, I am more than happy to admit it, and indeed, feel gratitude to the source of my edification.
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doggyji



Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for responding here. I should've known it was you. Smile

shakuhachi wrote:
The Confucius as Korean idea comes from the Korean claim that Korea used to be much larger that it is now, and that Shandong province in China used to be part of a Korean kingdom. Confucius is from Shandong province, and if Shandong province is part of a Korean kingdom, then Confucius must be Korean. That is the assumption that the Koreans making the claim are working on.

Most Koreans do not think that Confucius is Korean because the claim that he is Korean has just been made. Who knows, it may just be a matter of time before many Koreans think so. Many Koreans also think that Karate, Kendo, Sushi, etc, also come from Korea as well.

A seach for 'Confucius is Korean' (공자는 한국인) comes up with plenty of hits on Korean search engine Naver.
Okay, I just checked with those keywords. All I get is this single same line over and over.

"공자는, 한국인으로, 한국의 반역자였다?!" from 방영주 장편소설(novel) <우리들의 천국>

What can you not find in this way really? Well, you have your own purpose. As for some Koreans thinking Karate, Kendo and Sushi come from Korea, I think they are just as ignorant as some Americans who believe Samsung is a Japan-based company or Koreans speak Chinese for example. General ignorance exists everywhere all the time. I think you can dig up one new thing everyday for fun. However, I suppose there's just a limit. No sane person believes Harry Porter is a real person. Believing Confucius is Korean might be just that much for the general public. Thank you for trying to clarify anyway.
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Guri Guy



Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The website is good I think. Usually it hosts good discussions and it is generally informative. It is also extremely entertaining at times.
The articles on Dokdo/Takeshima were excellent. I certainly learned a lot. I hope Gerry Beavers publishes a book.

I don't find it to be terribly biased. I am sure it is much better than the Nazizens that lurk on Naver and Yahoo Korea. Razz
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ed4444



Joined: 12 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a good site to read for a laugh at what the Japanese right wingers are spinning from week to week for non Japanese readers.

Here is a post that shows where the source material comes from:

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2006/11/contribution-of-misattributed-photos.html
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jaganath69



Joined: 17 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ed4444 wrote:
Its a good site to read for a laugh at what the Japanese right wingers are spinning from week to week for non Japanese readers.

Here is a post that shows where the source material comes from:

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2006/11/contribution-of-misattributed-photos.html


Well said, its funny if you realise its the flip side of the coin to the nutty netizen crowd here.
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