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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: "Si Pinochet Se Muere de Viejo..." |
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"...seria una verguenza para Chile."
Or so proclaimed a graffito I once saw in the La Reina barrio in Santiago de Chile.
"Not a leaf moves in Chile without my knowing about it."
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Augusto Pinochet Ugarte was a disciplined soldier in a country where the military normally obeyed civilian rule. Even when other army officers began grumbling about Chile's left-wing president, Salvador Allende, Pinochet continued to follow the president's orders. In June 1973, Allende appointed Pinochet commander-in-chief of the Chilean Armed Forces.
Ariel Dorfman is a Chilean writer who once worked for Allende. He remembers answering the phone in Allende's office when Pinochet called.
"I said, 'Just a moment please. I'll find him. I'll find him,'" Dorfman says, "because I thought this is ours, this is Pinochet, he's our guy."
But in the end he was not the president's guy... |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6606013
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SANTIAGO, Chile (AP) -- Gen. Augusto Pinochet, who overthrew Chile's democratically elected Marxist president in a bloody coup and ruled the Andean nation for 17 years, died Sunday, dashing hopes of victims of his regime's abuses that he would be brought to justice. He was 91.
Pinochet suffered a heart attack a week ago and underwent an angioplasty, and the brief announcement by the Santiago Military hospital said his condition worsened suddenly on Sunday.
Dr. Juan Ignacio Vergara, spokesman for the medical team that had been treating him, said his family was with him when he died.
Police ringed the hospital, but a small group of Pinochet supporters remained at the entrance, shouting insults at people in passing cars. The supporters, including some weeping women, repeatedly called out "Long Live Pinochet!" and sang Chile's national anthem... |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/12/10/pinochet.ap/index.html |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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There is a leaf moving outside my window as as I read this.
Hey, the guy apologized.
cbc |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| And the embers of hell get one more partygoer, thank god that SOB is dead, now if only Kissinger. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| at least chile was in somewhat better shape when Pinochet stepped down than when he came to power; don't think the same be said about Kissinger and the United States. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| at least chile was in somewhat better shape... |
It was neither Nixon nor Kissinger, Bucheon. It was Reagan's Japanese- and German-financed defense expenditures that made the U.S. a debtor nation.
And if you are talking about international diplomacy, then I think it is apples and oranges. Nixon and Kissinger may have done damage (even if they did many brilliant things, too). But Chile is hardly significant in world affairs one way or the other. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I like the plums and grapes at Walmart.
That's significant.
cbc |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll open up a good bottle of Chilean Red and drink a toast to the man who saved Chile. True 3000+ died in crushing communism, but how many would have died if he hadn't? Here was a man who saw a problem ( communism) growing in his beloved country, acted ( albeit harshly ) and when the problem was solved gave up power. Would a Chavez or a Castro have given up power once they had it? I think not. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Castro is giving up his power!?
cbc |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Castro is giving up his power... |
...on his death-bed. And primarily because it is the only way to assure his political system's continuation.
Castro did not call a plebiscite on his rule, for example. And Pinochet, under much pressure, of course, did.
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I love the apologists for murderers on this board, they are almost as fun as those who apologize for rape! Dave's rocks, so many intellectuals, so many caring and humane people. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Castro did not call a plebicite on his rule, for example. And Pinochet, under much pressure, of course, did. |
Please also mention the fact that he knew his time was up, he went out changing the constitution so he could NEVER be prosecuted and he went out being nominated generalissimo for life. He didn't call a plebicite because he wanted to and thought it best for Chile.
I think the only better thing for him than death would have been being buried alive....then dug up every once in a while and reburied........
Kissinger along side him, for company.
Not apologizing for the crazy socialists of Chile, just saying that Pinochet was BY FAR the worse evil. And stupid at that.
DD |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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1. Chavez is democratically elected.
2. Allende was democratically elected.
If your democracy chooses to elect a nutter thats your country's choice (just look at the current US president). Its not up to other countries to depose the democratically elected leaders of other countries. It was and is wrong. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Castro did not call a plebiscite on his rule, for example. And Pinochet, under much pressure, of course, did. |
Please also mention the fact that... |
I thought I already did, Ddeubel.
| ddeubel wrote: |
| ...he went out changing the constitution so he could NEVER be prosecuted and he went out being nominated generalissimo for life. He didn't call a plebicite because he wanted to and thought it best for Chile. |
He had called an earlier plebiscite before rewriting the constitution. He nominated himself and several others as Senator-for-life, not generalissimo. He stepped down as commander-in-chief of the armed forces around 1997.
| ddeubel wrote: |
I think the only better thing for him than death would have been being buried alive...then dug up every once in a while and reburied...
Kissinger along side him, for company. |
Oh yeah, and please: no more lectures on "human rights" from you. Your application of them leaves much to be desired.
And I agree that Pinochet was something of a monster, by the way. But human rights either apply or they do not.
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Chavez is democratically elected; Allende was democratically elected. |
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| A career military officer, Ch�vez founded the leftist Fifth Republic Movement after orchestrating a failed 1992 coup d'�tat against former president Carlos Andr�s P�rez. Ch�vez was elected President in 1998... |
Chavez "democratically elected?" I guess that is technically true, Octavius. But you seem to be forgetting a few things about the man. Namely: he started his political career attempting to overthrow Venezuela's constitutionally-elected government. And he never looked back...
And Allende was legally elected. But the vast majority of Chileans opposed him. I refer to nearly sixty percent of Chileans between 1970-1973. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bush's approval rating is 30% that means the vast majority of Americans oppose him, so should Britain pay for a coup to overthrow him and put someone elese in power? |
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