Korean Job Discussion Forums

stevemcgarrett · Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Aloha,

I've only been teaching in Korea since last March but I've had more than a half dozen students plead with me to change their grades, sometimes by as much as 20 points.

Is this a common phenomenon in Korean education? I taught for 8 years in China and never once had this happen, although I'm sure that like everywhere some students sulked over their grades. I'm not naive here: behind the scenes I know in fact that more than a few students (of mine and my colleagues) got their grades changed by office staff, sometimes with a wink and a nod from the department dean or by making bribes.

Frankly, I'm surprised these groveling students don't find it degrading and a major loss of face, despite pleading with the utmost civility. Where does this bartering habit come from? A few were motivated by concern over losing scholarships but then why did they pile up unexcused absences?

You know, it's funny, in this notable aspect many are not willing to assume responsibility for themselves. I'd like to think it's generational, i.e. a recent trend in Korean schooling but I've got a sneaking suspicion it might have deeper roots.

Yesterday, I told a student curtly to cease and desist (not in those words, of course), that my grades were not something to be ladled out like dollops of rice, or bargained over like items in a flea market.

ajuma · Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

Welcome to the Korean uni system! Laughing

I almost NEVER change a grade, unless the student produces a document proving that s/he had a legal absence. Stand firm and just expect that it will happen.

I've often thought that I could save a lot of time and energy by offering A+ grades to students who could pay W200,000, B+ to those who could pay W100,000 and C+ to those who could pay W50,000!! Laughing

I'm only 3/4 joking here!!

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

To university teachers - Happy Beg Week!
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=22996

I bought extra tissue for the festivities. But, I did not buy any correction fluid. For some strange reason, my computer is not functioning properly. I cannot seem to change the final grades and scores (except downward). Perhaps, I should contact the technician in the computer service center.

Parents Pamper College-age Children
"Mom is my manager."
by Yi-Young Cho and Soo-Jung Shin (May 05, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004050622478

stevemcgarrett · Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Real Reality:

Your post with the weblinks paints a bleak picture: pampered, immature, kids who feel they shoul get something for nothing. Reminds me of a cartoon I saw a few years back in The New Yorker. A kid was bragging about his sports trophies. Every one of them said simply "Participant."

On a side note: the other day one of my students asked me (I'm 51) how I'm able to ride my bike 5 km. to campus every day. I told him it was hard at first but I got used to it. He said it was easier because I'm so strong. Actually, I'm not in the best of shape but compared to the lazy laid-back attitude of this 20 year-old, I'm doing alright.

I think grade inflation and begging is symptomatic of a sense of entitlement that pervades developed countries, but is there also a cultural element at play here?

laogaiguk · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea

I have come to learn this site makes people believe problems are more than what they really are. If I truly took this site as it shows, Korea would seem like one of the most xenophobic, dangerous, dishonest countries in the world. It has enough of those traits, but not as much as is shown on this site. I think the same goes for this cheating.

Second, I just recently read a lab technician in a New England University was arrested for taking money and gifts for marks. And I think all I have to do is mention "Sports scholarships" to make that point Smile

It's definitely worse in Asia, but it's definitely not confined to there.

rothkowitz · Joined: 27 Apr 2006

At my Uni one of my profs was ok with changing the grade on a paper if you could could make a convincing defense for what you had put forward.

I'm not in a Uni but if someone could convincingly say in English why their mark should be improved I think I might be open to that.Simply not turning up and then demanding a better mark at the end,nope.

They can take it up with admin.They probably would anyways..

gang ah jee · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: city of paper

"Barter"? Really?

So what are they offering in return for these grades?

mnhnhyouh · Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Location: The Middle Kingdom

One Australian academic I worked with would always take the first paper they were asked to remark from a first year and mark it down. The students almost never asked again.....

h

stevemcgarrett · Joined: 24 Mar 2006

laogai

That kitten must be scratchin' your brains out. I never said nor implied that it was a problem peculiar to Korea. But in my years of teaching in Chinese (and American) universities I never personally encountered this problem. I realize this is anecdotal but there does seem to exist a proclivity for this kind of behavior in Korea. That's the point I'm seeking confirmation about.

Still, you're point is well taken that in using this forum as a sounding board, the OPs might be guilty of overstating certain cultural assumptions. Which is why I asked if it's cultural, especially given the level of academic bribery here.

ganganjee:

Point duly noted: it's not really barter because it's not reciprocated in any way, nor do I want it to be. The word 'barter' came to mind after 'haggle' but then 'begging' isn't quite on the mark, either, because some students EXPECT you to meet their request. So what would you call it?

simpleminds · Joined: 04 May 2006

Welcome to tertiary education!

I had students weep, kowtow, buy me stuff, make me late to class. Of course I refused. About three per semester would try. Most knew that it's no good asking me.

My successor had students bat their eyelashes at him. Guess there're advantages to being female. (Most of my students were women; flight attendants, secretaries, etc.)

A friend once said, "People here don't earn their degrees, they buy it."
Why, then, should they work for it? (Their attitude, not mine)

gang ah jee · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: city of paper

gweilo_farang · Joined: 23 Oct 2006

laogaiguk · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea

hellofaniceguy · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: On your computer screen!

What I tell each and every student......"I do not give grades....you earn them. If you earned an "A," ......give yourself a pat on the back.....and me....for having done something right! If you earned a lower grade...again....you earned it. It was not given and I won't change it. Period. Now....having said that....you can cancel my class at this time if you'd like knowing what I just told you."

It works for me.

Pak Yu Man · Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Location: The Ida galaxy

Hell ya!

I put a sign next to my final grades

Attention Students.

"Here are your grades. The first number is your attendance. The second is your mid-term. The third is your final grade. (someother classes had assignments).

Every test I told you what was going to be on the exam. The questions were exactly what I said they would be. It's not my fault you didn't study. Don't bother me about grades...I will not change any. If you call me I will lower your grade. Better luck next time."

Then I got my wife to translate it for me.

I still had one girl beg me for an A+ right in front of the secretary in charge of the grades. I changed it in front of both of them. The student left happy, the secretary said "that's so unfair". Then I changed it back to the original grade. They will whine, beg, buy you stuff, offer to have sex with you and stalk you for grades.

Lay down the iron fist from the start.