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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:55 am Post subject: Holocaust-Denial Conference Underway in Tehran... |
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TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran on Monday opened a two-day conference exploring the validity of the Nazi Holocaust, a move that has sparked outrage among Jewish groups.
One such group, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, planned to counter the event with a teleconference showcasing stories from Holocaust survivors.
Manouchehr Mohammadi, Iran's deputy foreign minister for research, told Iran's state-run news agency, IRNA, that Tehran's leaders would accept that the Holocaust occurred if scholars attending the conference could prove that the Nazi regime exterminated 6 million Jews during World War II.
But Mohammadi said Iran does not deny the murders and damages caused by Hitler's genocide, nor that 50 million people were the victims of his racism, according to IRNA.
He said the conference is to be held in response to international outrage at Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's repeated assertion that the Holocaust is a myth.
"If the Holocaust is a historical event, then is it not warranted to be looked into and researched?" Mohammadi asked rhetorically... |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/11/iran.holocaust/index.html |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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When this conference was first mentioned, a number of months ago, I thought it might bear fruit and be a good thing.
I remained positive for awhile. But I think the assessment that this is a "denial" conference, if somewhat hard, is bang on.
I finally got a look at the "guest" list. It includes some pretty scurlous characters, one among which I've clashed with over conclusions about Katyn (in the Ukraine, a massacre).
I don't think this will be impartial at all and I would advise all those interested to do what the Simon Wiesenthal staff are doing. Trying to educated Iranians (and also as their mission statement directs, everyone else too) about the Holocaust, its reasons and its lessons..........this would be done through openess, dialogue and the media. Iranians are very intouch with the world and I am sure that in this Fridays elections, Ahmadinejad's gamble about this conference will backfire and he will get a sound flogging at the polls.
And yes, Iran is democratic (but with problems, as there is in other developed countries....).
But overall, I think it worthy that others have stayed away....
DD |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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It's so muddle-headed. It's like the Iranian government desperately wants to be a laughing stock.  |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: ... |
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Leader gets lesson on free speech at Iran uni
Michael Theodoulou
December 13, 2006
DOZENS of Iranian students burnt pictures of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and chanted "death to the dictator" as he gave a speech at a university inTehran.
Never has the hardline leader faced such open hostility at a public event, which came as Iran opened a conference questioning whether Nazi Germany murdered six million Jews.
One student activist said the protest was against the "shameful" Holocaust conference and the "fact that many activists have not been allowed to attend university". The conference had "brought to our country Nazis and racists from around the world", he said. |
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20919335-12332,00.html |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Hmmmm ... apparently a number of Jewish Rabbis are in attendence 
Wonder how the Zionists will try to "spin" that.
One of the issues being discussed is the oft. repeated & all-too exaggerated "magick" 6 million figure. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Iran is democratic? Really?
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Iran has the trappings of democracy. There is a constitution, there are political factions with their own following and their own newspapers, there are local and parliamentary elections - and women can both vote and stand for election.
But Iran's political system is like no other.
The system created by Ayatollah Khomeini after the revolution of 1979 is unique, first and foremost, because of the role he carved out for himself. He established himself at the top of the political pyramid as the faqih, or supreme leader.
Ayatollah Khomeini: Authority and charisma
He stood above the political fray, as the final arbiter whose word was law. Although Islam has no papacy, Khomeini became a Pope-like figure and many Iranians regarded him as infallible.
His critics, in contrast, saw the institution of faqih as a cloak for dictatorship. |
(From the ultra right-wing BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/619419.stm )
It is a democracy, if a crazy religious wacko calling all the final shots is a democracy. Yeah. And all the reformist professors were allowed to run for office without any hindrance too. Yup. I bet anybody who doesn't think Iran is a democracy is a racist. Right, dd?
And you have "clashed". What, when on the toilet? Playing king? While at the hakwon? haha. You're amazing. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Hmmmm ... apparently a number of Jewish Rabbis are in attendence
Wonder how the Zionists will try to "spin" that.
One of the issues being discussed is the oft. repeated & all-too exaggerated "magick" 6 million figure. |
They ain't no regular Rabbi. They are wild crazy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta
I love it! The world is going crazy! Iran has a conference on how to properly deny the death of 4million people (give or take) and the media swoon. Al-reuters even calls David Duke an "American Academic". Whoa! Even meegook wouldn't go that far!
http://today.reuters.com
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The conference was inspired by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who since coming to power in August 2005 has sparked international condemnation with comments referring to the Holocaust as a "myth" and calling Israel a "tumor".
Among the participants was U.S. academic David Duke |
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David Ernest Duke (born July 1, 1950) is a former Louisiana Republican state representative, and former Imperial Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Duke is a self-styled white nationalist, though critics often label him a white supremacist. He says he does not think of himself as a racist, stating that he is a "racial realist" and that he believes "all people have a basic human right to preserve their own heritage."He speaks against racial integration and in favor of white separatism. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke
If any of you thought (cough dd cough) that this would turn out any other way, you are crazy. Full stop.
Last edited by thepeel on Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran
"Supreme Leader
Main article: Supreme Leader of Iran
The Supreme Leader of Iran is responsible for delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran". The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has sole power to declare war. The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians are appointed by the Supreme Leader. The Assembly of Experts elects and dismisses the Supreme Leader on the basis of qualifications and popular esteem.[32] The Assembly of Experts is responsible for supervising the Supreme Leader in the performance of legal duties. The current Supreme leader of Iran is Ayatollah Khamanei.
Executive
Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, current President of IranMain article: President of Iran
After the Supreme Leader, the Constitution defines the President as the highest state authority. The President is elected by universal suffrage for a term of four years. Presidential candidates must be approved by the Council of Guardians prior to running in order to ensure their allegiance to the ideals of the Islamic revolution. The President is responsible for the implementation of the Constitution and for the exercise of executive powers, except for matters directly related to the Supreme Leader, who has the final say in all matters. The President appoints and supervises the Council of Ministers, coordinates government decisions, and selects government policies to be placed before the legislature. Eight Vice-Presidents serve under the President, as well as a cabinet of twenty-one ministers, who must all be approved by the legislature. Unlike many other states, the executive branch in Iran does not control the armed forces. Although the President appoints the Ministers of Intelligence and Defense, it is customary for the President to obtain explicit approval from the Supreme Leader for these two ministers before presenting them to the legislature for a vote of confidence."
Can you say Theocracy.
cbc |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel's days were numbered.
Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War Two as a "myth" and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map", launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state.
"Thanks to people's wishes and God's will the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want," he said.
"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added. |
No need to prevent Iran from building nukes. Nope. All fear-mongering.
Isn't there any rule at the UN regarding one state threatening to destroy the other? If (when?) America does it I'm sure the regular crew goes mad. I guess it is ok to want to kill Jews?
And Tony is shocked(!) that Iran is doing this.
| Quote: |
| Prime Minister Tony Blair said Tuesday he found it "unbelievable" and "shocking" that Iran hosted a conference examining whether the Holocaust took place, a meeting Israel's prime minister has condemned as a "sick phenomenon." |
I don't know what he is so shocked about. It isn't like this conference was a surprise. I've known about it for more than a year (or so).
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"I mean, they hold this conference yesterday which ... is such a symbol of sectarianism and hatred toward people of another religion. I find it just unbelievable really," Blair said. |
If he finds this "unbelievable", he hasn't been paying close attention to the region.
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"Anti-Semitism has no place in Europe; nor should it in any other part of the world," EU Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Franco Frattini said. |
Mr. frattini may want to read up on France.
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| "The Shoah (Holocaust) was a great tragedy before which we cannot remain indifferent," the Holy See said. "The memory of those horrible events must remain as a warning for people's consciences, to eliminate conflicts, respect the rights of all peoples, exhort for peace, truth and justice." |
The best comment thus far.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/12/D8LVCH400.html |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahmadinejad...exercise of executive powers, except for matters directly related to the Supreme Leader, who has the final say in all matters... who must all be approved by the legislature. Unlike many other states, the executive branch in Iran does not control the armed forces. Although the President appoints the Ministers of Intelligence and Defense, it is customary for the President to obtain explicit approval from the Supreme Leader |
Ahmadinejad doesn't really have much power at all, does he? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Ahmadinejad doesn't really have much power at all, does he? |
Not Ahmadinejad, Ya-ta. But the Supreme Leader, or the chief mullah, is indeed that powerful, however.
The Iranian woman I know recently told me how only Iranian men may attend soccer games. And women may not. She explained that Ahmadinejad tried to change this, to "modernize" the tradition, so to speak. But the Supreme Leader shot him down immediately and he had to drop the issue.
As Nowhere Man would be quick to point out, things are not exactly as they seem in Iran. But as I would remind him, the Mullahs have not relaxed their position on anything significant since 1979. "Democratic" elections or not, then, Tehran remains subject to an intolerant, Fundamentalist Muslim theocracy.
By the way, the confusion implicit in this article's excerpt nicely demonstrates Washington's problem: who exactly do we need to talk to in Tehran to get things done?
Finally, here is an update on how things are going at "the conference..."
| Quote: |
TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel's days were numbered.
Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War II as a "myth" and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map," launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state.
"Thanks to people's wishes and God's will, the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want," he said. (Watch an ex-KKK leader say why he's at the conference)
"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added.
His words received warm applause from delegates at the Holocaust conference, who included ultra-Orthodox anti-Israel Jews and European and American writers who argue the Holocaust was either fabricated or exaggerated... |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/12/iran.holocaust.conference.reut/index.html |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahmadinejad wrote: |
| "Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added. |
Ooh, just like the Soviet Union? So Israel will be wiped out by a flood of Saudi oil on the market, calls for democratization, an overextended military budget and the dozens and dozens of republics within Israel all declaring independence. Gotcha.
Who knows, maybe it made more sense (-_-) in the original Farsi. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist,
so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added. |
How was the Soviet Union "wiped out"? With nuclear weapons?
Holocaust deniers' meeting spurs outrage
By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer
Tue Dec 12, 2:02 PM ET
VIENNA, Austria - A gathering of Holocaust deniers in Iran touched off a firestorm of indignation Tuesday across Europe, where many countries have made it a crime to publicly disavow the Nazis' systematic extermination of 6 million Jews.
The European Union's top justice official condemned the conference as "an unacceptable affront" to victims of the World War II genocide. British Prime Minister Tony Blair denounced it as "shocking beyond belief" and proof of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's extremism.
"I think it is such a symbol of sectarianism and hatred toward people of another religion. I find it just unbelievable, really," Blair said in London.
"I mean to go and invite the former head of the Ku Klux Klan to a conference in Tehran which disputes the millions of people who died in the Holocaust ... what further evidence do you need that this regime is extreme?" he added.
David Duke, an ex-Klan leader and former Louisiana state representative, was among those at the two-day conference. Although organizers touted it as a scholarly gathering, the meeting angered many in countries such as Austria, Germany and France, where it is illegal to deny "aspects" of the Nazi Holocaust.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/holocaust_denial |
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Tobacco Dreams
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: Humpty dumb dumb . . . |
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Anyone who reads the news will know that Israel has very openly been threatening Iran with war for quite some time now.
Is it any wonder that Iran should respond more or less in kind?
You can't be both a poor innocent AND a psychotic mass murderer. Israel's been trying to play it both ways for far too long. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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A very good article and analysis of WHY Ahmandinejad would put on such a "show" and also how it will hurt him politically. Many Iranians see through it and it will show in today's local elections, I am sure. Further, many Iranians don't see what in the world it has to do with "Iran".
I do agree there is a real fictional view of the holocaust and its relationship to the state of Israel throughout the Arab world in particular, if not the Muslim world. I think this should be fought through education and debate with this world and I think this circus of Ahmandinejad , however unfortunate, would make a good place to start.
I watched an interview with Duke on CNN yesterday. The guys hatred, insecure little boy hatred, just can't be hidden by him. Idiot. 'There may be a lot of "Jewish " funding of Washington but it doesn't make a conspiracy just means that a lot of people with money happen to be Jewish (more in name / history than in practice). And he isn't the worst of them, several others couldn't make it, believe it or not, because they under warrant in their own countries for much "spreading of denial". Shameful.
Good read, here are a few parts of this reasoned article.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/14/africa/web.1214holocaust.php
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Such actions have also helped turn attention away from his inability so far to deliver on promises of economic populism, including a redistribution of Iran's enormous wealth and greater social justice for the bulk of the country that is struggling to make ends meet.
The president's ideas do not resonate in all corners of Iran, though, and some political scientists there say they have served to embarrass officials who, even if they agree, do not want to see a focus on Holocaust denial further isolate Iran from Europe. |
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| "It is for public consumption in Arab countries," said Mustafa el-Labbad, editor of Sharqnameh, a magazine specializing in Iranian affairs and published in Cairo. "It is specifically directed toward deepening the gap between the people and their regimes and toward embarrassing the rulers so that the regional power vacuum, especially after Iraq, can be filled by Iran." |
DD |
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