Korean Job Discussion Forums

[On the other hand]

Jonathan Pollard getting paroled

Apparently, the parole was mandatory after thirty years, which he has now served.

The article makes a fairly strong case for its headline calling Pollard one of the worst traitors of the 20th Century. Interesting details about the Israelis soliciting information that was of little use to them, but much use to the Soviets.

[sirius black]

It's my understanding that a parole hearing is mandatory NOT parole, but that's what I ascertain from news sources. I'm not going to read the previous 37 pages so apologies if some of these things are repeated.

The fact is for most of the past 30 or so years, there has only been two unchanging US foreign policy and that is Israel and Cuba. Both not for practical reasons. Cuba was purely because of anger towards Fidel and then later on for Cuban American votes in Florida which became vital for anyone with Presidential ambitions.

WIth regards to Israel, its almost all based on the financial power of American jews. Lets call it what it is. They are not doing anything different than any other group who want their way.

If you go against AIPAC and by extension Israel, or perceived to, there are serious consequences and repurcussions. Economically, in the media, politically (the jewish vote in Florida is similar to the Cuban vote).

Israel has the most influence on America, more than our 'special relationship' with the UK. We would go against the UK in a vote in the UN rather than Israel.

Israel owns the US in terms of US/Israel relationship. Its one sided. The power is the American jewish groups. That's Israel's trump card and they are a de facto arm of the Israeli government. I think many Republican politicians committed treason by pledging to defend Israel. Many said being against Israel is being un-American. No country, friend or foe should have that. None. Not Israel, the UK, Canada, none whatsoever. Its America first and countries can and do change. They do bad things. You disagree.

Because of the huge economical power of American jews, the title is a misnomer. It won't happen. America is wedded to Israel.

As far as Pollard, he is an example of the power and influence they have over us. If he passed the secrets to USSR he'd rot in jail. Who he gave them to is not relevant. The fact he did is.

[catman]

I would actually say it is more to do with American protestants who for the most part are rabidly pro-Israel.

[On the other hand]

[Fallacy]

[bucheon bum]

[stilicho25]

I don't think we are really talking about american jews, who in general are much more liberal leaning then aipac, but instead a group of very powerful oligarchs who are also ethno nationalists. Anyway, good post sirius.

[sirius black]

Without knowing their voting record, has Jews in Congress, liberal or conservative domestically ever received a low rating by AIPAC with regards to American Israeli relations?

The Koch brothers, Adelson, all the way down the ladder in addition to their business interests include support for Israel as part of their demands when they give money.

The fundamentalist Christian groups are pro Israel but its all related, they are primarily Republican and therefore adopt the party line, which is overtly, almost zealously pro Israel. Fundamentalist groups primarily are concerned with domestic issues (abortion, etc.). The stance of far right Christian politicians come from AIPAC which is the most powerful lobby in Washington DC. The southern fundamentalists are a strange dichotomy. Many still harbor decades old anti semetic feelings but support Israel on the pulpit at least.

American Jews, even the liberal temples, support Israel to the hilt. They are liberal domestically but support Israel internationally. Look at the Iran deal, the Liberal jewish democrats are basically having to choose between the party and AIPAC/Israel and only a brave very few are going with the President.

The Bibi visit to America and addressing Congress says it all really about the scope and context of their power and influence.

[Swartz]

I agree Stitch, good post from Sirius, who seems to understand the crux of the main existential roadblock we face in the West. From time to time I check the comments at the Huffpos when I see an article on Israel, and I’m always pleasantly surprised that this message has reached the left in the numbers it has. It shows that there may be hope ahead and highlights an interesting new paradigm. The omnipowerful Jewish diaspora, as ethnic liberals/communists, being partially sold out by their democratic base and having to turn to fake conservative politicians and the flyover country’s brainwashed Evangelicals they resent so deeply, is quite a twist. However, they were ahead of that issue and have had every mega preacher in their pocket for decades (their elite being used to playing both sides for the last few hundred years or so).

Folks, the conundrum we face now is that 2-3% of the population control 93% of the media/Hollywood/publishing, etc., most of Wall Street and significant other big financial institutions, our elite universities (elite feeder Harvard being at least 25% Jewish per Ron Unz’s article on the subject), multitudes of think-tanks and vast swaths of our political policy in return so we can take out their foes in the Middle East and ship Muslims to Europe en masse; not to mention having a lot of control of other things that negatively affect our domestic culture like gangster rap (Jerry Heller from NWA) and large portions of the pornography industry. They’re a very smart, cunning group of people. And they are able to do what they do and subvert their host populations because they have a dominant group evolutionary strategy. But, most importantly, control over our monetary system and centrally planned institutions like the EU.

The question now is, how do we deal with this disproportional influence over our societies? The group of people who now controls the US are the descendants of the groups that took over Russia by way of the Bolshevik Revolution, which killed 20 million Russians, and the most elite classes of Russians, at that. Given the influence the mass media (somehow, still) has over western countries and the taboo towards showing any form of ethnic pride, if Europeans or European-derived people become minorities in their home countries, we will likely suffer greatly and eventually become extinct.

[sirius black]

With regards to the question that was posed 'how do we deal with the disproportional influence', I think its too late. The influence is pervasive and endemic. The many heads of the Hydra so to speak.

My view may sound anti semetic but its about ANY undue influence on American policy from ANYONE. It would take a President who is brave enough to do it. By brave, I include the media painting him in a negative way. He would also presumably have to be in his second term because at this point and time I don't see anyone getting elected or re-elected taking the stance that is needed.

I think it would take a jewish President. Bernie Sanders could possibly be 'brave' enough. Many times it takes someone of the group to change things. For example, a Democrat could not have made the trip to China as Nixon did. He was known as a staunch anti communist so only someone like that could take the trip. It took a centrist democrat to change welfare as in Clinton in the '90s. A Republican could not have gotten that done. It took someone from a former confederate state to push through Civil Rights as Johnson did. JFK, had he survived couldn't have come close.

Therefore, the only way I see this changing is ironically someone Jewish and brave and truly patriotic.

[guavashake]

[Plain Meaning]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Plain Meaning]

Okay, TUM. There's definitely a case to be made that Hamas's attacks were unprovoked (if you do not consider the daily oppressions of occupation itself provocation) or more solidly, disproportionate to the provocation. But do you consider Israel's response itself proportionate? If you think that's questionable, that's the part of the resolution I am questioning, because it affirms Israel's 'defense' against 'unprovoked attacks' by Hamas. The operations Israel conducted went well beyond defense and well into collective punishment.

I hope I have made it clear that I do not sympathize or indorse Hamas. My sympathy lies with innocents in Palestine and Israel.

[sirius black]

You either missed the point or avoided it. Nixon was a staunch anti communist. Only a staunch anti communist could have gotten away with going to China at that time. A President who was seen as soft on China would have not been able to do it politically.

Only a President from one of the Confederate states could have gotten a civil rights bill through. JFK, had he lived, would have found it impossible.

A Republican president would have found it impossible to reform social welfare as Clinton, who was extremely popular with blacks at the time.

Not in all cases but in some very big issues. Therefore, it may take a staunch Israeli supporting President to reign Israel in.

I stated facts. Saying it isn't so, doesn't erase these facts. Offer salient facts to the contrary instead of just denying historical truths.