Korean Job Discussion Forums

weatherman · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: Korea

A question answered.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200311/kt2003112817004010510.htm

Mr. Pink · Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: China

Thats for the info...this is sort of what RR should be doing when posting articles - giving a small quote, and commenting on it.

Ryst Helmut · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:00 am Post subject:

20,000 illegal teachers are migrant workers....no, illegal, yes.

I can probably name 20 off the top of my head.

If immigration gave cash rewards I'd be retired.

Shoosh,
Ryst

Arthur Fonzerelli · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Suwon

I believe it... GI's, Filipinos, Indians, and others are all teaching english here in korea....

weatherman · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: Korea

Joe Thanks · Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: Dudleyville

The King of Kwangju · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Location: New York City

Interesting article, but it doesn't make much sense.

20,000 sounds high, first off. This number comes from the Justice Department and no justification for the number is given. It sounds made up.

Gwangjuboy · Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Location: England

TECO · Joined: 20 Jan 2003

Gwangju - It's the hogwan industry doing it to itself. As long as Korean business people keep hiring illegals the hogwan situation will remain the same. Not the illegals fault, they only end up where the demand is.

Tthe businesses want them!

Sounds like Taiwan - there must be literally thousands here doing the same thing.

A guy from Canada told me recently that the hogwan owner he works for isn't renewing any of the teachers contracts and has brought in both Philippina staff and teachers to work the business. Shocked

Can any of you guess why?

TheUrbanMyth · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired

This is what I have been saying for years. Illegal teachers make it worse for the rest of us. Finally some other people are catching on. Yet most teachers on here will freely give advice and support to illegal teachers to come on over, either because they are so short-sighted or they are only here for a year or two and don't care.

Let's suppose a lot of hakwons start hiring "Philippina staff and teachers" Do you think they are going to pay them 2M per month? Not likely. And what happens to the rest of us when the other hakwon directors get word of how much their fellow directors are saving by hiring illegal teachers (regardless of where they are from)? Either we accept lower pay or get replaced. This will happen, in fact is already beginning to happen.

A certain VP of the hakwon association in a certain Korea city (PM me for details) is working on plans to bring Kypoes over instead of wak-gooks. It seems he feels that they will be more at home in this culture (less likely to pull a runner) and willing to accept less pay. He is attempting to get all the directors of this city to agree to this, thus making the city a wak-gook teacher-free zone.

Manner of Speaking · Joined: 09 Jan 2003

weatherman · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: Korea

Plus I find the logic in the article a bit off. What are they really saying here?

TheUrbanMyth · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired

chronicpride · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

While I believe that there is around 10,000 E2 teachers here, I'm not sure about the 20,000 that are illegal. She mentions in the article that the 20,000 are working in the 5000 or so private institutes. This leaves out all the teachers who teach privates, but not at schools. Like the people who are on tourist visas, but teach businessmen, or live and teach in apartment buildings, etc...She also leaves out illegal hogwans. Ones that operate low-key and under the radar, that the MOJ will never hear about, unless enrollment gets too high. She's just quoting her estimation of the traditional market, not the underground market, which would be impossible to track. I think the 20,000 could be inclusive of those that teach illegally, but not just at schools.

If they wanted to go after illegal teachers, they should start factoring in numbers like, how many ppl are in country on tourist visas, and of those, how many renew after expiration and come right back, and how long have they been doing this for. If they wanted to crack down, they should flag those people, as possible visa violators, and find a way to monitor their activity more closely.

But they approach the situation by going after the source. And the source comes from the hogwans, as someone mentioned earlier. The tempo and demand is set by directors and their hiring practices/greed.

noelinkorea · Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Location: Shinchon, Seoul

I contacted the journalist who wrote the article (using the e-mail provided at the end of the article). I was confused by parts of the piece he'd written, so was eager to get things a little clearer. Here is his copied-and-pasted e-mail reply below:

Dear Noel

This is Byun Duk-kun from The Korea Times. I wanted to thank you for your comment and

kind of explain what the article is saying.

I visited the website you posted and tried to leave a comment explaining why there are so many `illegal' English teachers, where the figure comes from and why they still have legal residence, but could not because I do not have a membership with the site.

Well, here are some explanations to help understand the article. And I do apologize for the confusion and misunderstanding. Hopefully this will make my article a little more clear.

First of all, the figure, 20,000 illegal English instructors, comes from the Justice Ministry as well as Hakwon (private language institutes) officials. There is an association of heads of Hakwon, which is called the Korean Institute Association, and that is where the 20,000 figure comes from.

Now when I said there are 20,000 foreigners working illegally as English instructors, the number not only included those working illegally at Hakwons, but also those who are illegally teaching South Korean kids. Therefore, this also includes private tutors and those who have formed a small hakwon themselves.

When the Justice Ministry official said that inspection was not easy, he was referring to the fact that most of these illegal English teachers are either U.S. servicemen or businessmen. On the same token, that is why the are still legal residents in Korea unlike those undocumented migrant workers from South East Asian countries, therefore are not illegal aliens. The only illegal activity they are committing is that they are working to be paid without a proper working visa, which in this case is an E-2 visa for English instructors.

Understand this is a very sensitive issue and a hard one at that. Still, I do apologize for the confusion I have caused with insufficient information as well as background in my article. And I thank you for your comment.

Sincerely

Byun Duk-kun