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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:05 am Post subject: Why do North Korean Athletes Never Defect? |
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| Any ideas on that? Lots of other communist countries have had many top star athletes defect for a shot at the big money pro sports offer. With the Asian Games going on in Korea you'd think at least one would do it. I don't think I've ever heard of a North Korean jumping ship like that. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Their families would be sent to the labour camps |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| Their families would be sent to the labour camps |
Yes, but that threat was used against athletes sent overseas by every communist country on earth. It did not deter people from defecting. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Because it ain't as bad is you think it is, and not as good as NK propaganda makes it out to be. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Because it ain't as bad is you think it is. |
-at least not for the class of people that live in Pyongyang and get to become athletes. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Because it ain't as bad is you think it is. |
-at least not for the class of people that live in Pyongyang and get to become athletes. |
Most North Koreans leaving North Korea go into China to work, and supposedly 80% are women and 80% of them return to NK with the money earned. There are no official stats on this. So, it seems most aren't being hounded by officials unless they get political. They are just trying to feed their families the best they can, just like most people from 3rd world countries.
Also the article below, over 25,000 defectors are officially known to have defected to SK. About 800 are unaccounted for, and officials believe they probably are/have returned to NK.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-north-korean-defectors-keep-returning-home-2013-12
Anyways, I once was an advocate to isolate North Korea until the brink of collapse. But after watching a few outspoken businessmen talk, I believe the best way to expedite the end of NK, is SK just open up the border. NK would probably collapse within days, if not hours after the border opens up. And businesses from a number of powerful countries would be salivating at the amount of money they'd make off of building infrastructure in NK. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| Their families would be sent to the labour camps |
Yes, but that threat was used against athletes sent overseas by every communist country on earth. It did not deter people from defecting. |
A) Not really, especially after the 50s. Cuba does not do that to the athletes that have defected to the USA.
B) As for North Korea, they'd be worked to death (if not just killed to start with).
Definitely a higher risk for North Korean athletes than many communist athletes during the Cold War.
| Quote: |
| Anyways, I once was an advocate to isolate North Korea until the brink of collapse. But after watching a few outspoken businessmen talk, I believe the best way to expedite the end of NK, is SK just open up the border. NK would probably collapse within days, if not hours after the border opens up. And businesses from a number of powerful countries would be salivating at the amount of money they'd make off of building infrastructure in NK. |
Except North Korea would also have to open up the border too. Fat chance of that happening. It isn't like the West was keeping Eastern Europeans out during the Cold War. Once Hungary let its citizens travel, then the flood and collapse of Communist Europe began. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: |
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One of my best friends has done two one-month volunteer teaching terms in and around Pyongyang, as well as a 2 week government sponsored tour . Not only was he not incessantly monitored in his comings and goings, he was free to roam around almost anywhere he wanted to go.
Western propaganda will have you believe it is a nation where the majority of people are brainwashed, starving scavengers. That's simply not true. Most North Koreans are well aware that they lag behind the rest of the world and that they have serious resource allocation and infrastructure problems. But the reality of things, and what our governments would like us to believe do not overlap very much. (According to what he saw and who he spoke with) |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
One of my best friends has done two one-month volunteer teaching terms in and around Pyongyang, as well as a 2 week government sponsored tour . Not only was he not incessantly monitored in his comings and goings, he was free to roam around almost anywhere he wanted to go.
Western propaganda will have you believe it is a nation where the majority of people are brainwashed, starving scavengers. That's simply not true. Most North Koreans are well aware that they lag behind the rest of the world and that they have serious resource allocation and infrastructure problems. But the reality of things, and what our governments would like us to believe do not overlap very much. (According to what he saw and who he spoke with) |
I don't know, this seems to dovetail pretty well with the books I've read on the subject. Escape from Camp 14 covered the camps, where it's possible that people kind of don't know what the hell is going on in the outside world. Nothing to Envy and Under the Care of the Fatherly Leader, however, are both pretty deliberate in saying that whatever real effect the brainwashing might have had dissipated dramatically following the fall of the Soviet Union and the subsequent hardships faced by the DPRK's citizens. I also don't think you can blame Western governments and media for creating this brainwashed image when the Norks pull Potemkin village shit whenever a camera is present (anyone see the Vice episode with the room full of people who didn't know how to use a computer?). |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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That VICE episode didn't illustrate a room of people who were unable to use computers. It showed that the computers weren't connected to anything.
Of course the Norks put on a show for the media for propaganda's sake, but not for the average joe. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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None of them are that good.
Any North Korean soccer or baseball players drawing interest? No. This isn't like Cuba where you have some of the best baseball players in the world....or the old Soviet hockey team back in the early 90's. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| As for why Cuban defectors defect, and this is completely unsubstantiated, but I've always had the sneaking suspicion that they got orders or at least were given the choice to do so by the government. Castro is such a big baseball fan that he probably wants to see some of his players go to the MLB and go against the big boys (and hopefully return one day to instruct other players). I don't know what the news is like in Cuba regarding those defectors, but I have the feeling that they aren't branded as evil traitors, otherwise there would have been family-executed level consequences long ago. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
One of my best friends has done two one-month volunteer teaching terms in and around Pyongyang, as well as a 2 week government sponsored tour . Not only was he not incessantly monitored in his comings and goings, he was free to roam around almost anywhere he wanted to go.
Western propaganda will have you believe it is a nation where the majority of people are brainwashed, starving scavengers. That's simply not true. Most North Koreans are well aware that they lag behind the rest of the world and that they have serious resource allocation and infrastructure problems. But the reality of things, and what our governments would like us to believe do not overlap very much. (According to what he saw and who he spoke with) |
Funny how North Korean refugees paint a completely different picture. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:15 am Post subject: |
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^
Oh, I'm sure there exist plenty of real examples of horrid conditions and treatment in NK, just as they exist anywhere else. Most of those accounts from NK refugees are quite old, however. All I'm saying is that our governments perpetuate and hyperbole those accounts as if they were the present norm.
I wouldn't trust our governments to honestly record accounts of what NK refugees say. |
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MedellinHeel
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Why do North Korean Athletes Never Defect? |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| Any ideas on that? Lots of other communist countries have had many top star athletes defect for a shot at the big money pro sports offer. With the Asian Games going on in Korea you'd think at least one would do it. I don't think I've ever heard of a North Korean jumping ship like that. |
Would you deflect if you knew your mother, father, wife, kids, etc would be killed, tortured, and/or impressioned?
I wouldn't.
Easy question after you think about it for a minute. |
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