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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:08 am Post subject: If this is what "nice" Muslims do in Britain..... |
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Take a look at these comments flooding this article from the bbc:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678837.stm
Are people from Britain incapable of saying anything bad about anyone, or are they afraid to say anything but "nice" about people responsible for murdering so many? Does the British press live in fear of offending Muslims?
It's almost as if the BBC is saying, "We love you bombers... oh, you're such NICE people... please know we love you... please... oh, NICE people would never do such a shocking thing!"
If this is what "nice" muslims do in Britain, I'd hate to see what the mean ones would do.
"He was a good man, quiet," said one parent, speaking outside the school. "
"He was really understanding and he did work for the children and parents."
"Neighbours told how he was not well-known in the Dewsbury Muslim community, but they believed he was a "very pleasant" person.
One neighbour said: "He didn't seem to be an extremist. He was not one to talk about religion. He was generally a very nice bloke."
"One neighbour described the family as "very nice people".
"He said: "We all knew them but I wouldn't say I knew them well. They were just a very nice family."
""He was a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone."
"Neighbours described the graduate, who studied at Leeds Metropolitan University, as a "good Muslim". Others said he was a "nice lad" who could "get on with anyone". |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
"He was really understanding and he did work for the children and parents."
"Neighbours told how he was not well-known in the Dewsbury Muslim community, but they believed he was a "very pleasant" person.
One neighbour said: "He didn't seem to be an extremist. He was not one to talk about religion. He was generally a very nice bloke."
"One neighbour described the family as "very nice people".
"He said: "We all knew them but I wouldn't say I knew them well. They were just a very nice family."
""He was a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone."
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How do you know these statements are inaccurate? Remember, these people are speaking of the impressions they had of the guy before the bombings.
If you really did think that someone was nice, helpful, etc, I'd say it would be quite dishonest to suddenly claim after the bombing that you never liked him. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Exactly....
now, don't you find an interesting similarity between these comments and all of the comments we receive about the majority of Muslims being "nice, peace-loving Muslims?"
I'm not saying most Muslims aren't... just curious if you see any similarity or contrast here?
Comments? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:37 am Post subject: |
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My comments:
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton
If tomorrow you found out that I was a serial killer would you tell the police that I was the terror of Dave's ESL Cafe, a real ass, and that you knew I had violent tendencies all along? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
Exactly....
now, don't you find an interesting similarity between these comments and all of the comments we receive about the majority of Muslims being "nice, peace-loving Muslims?"
I'm not saying most Muslims aren't... just curious if you see any similarity or contrast here?
Comments? |
as mith said, it doesn't just fit with these dudes.
If they didn't act normal or seem ok, then they probably wouldn't have been able to get away with what they did. A terrorist (or serial killer for that matter) needs to blend in to get away with his actions. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
My comments:
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton
If tomorrow you found out that I was a serial killer would you tell the police that I was the terror of Dave's ESL Cafe, a real ass, and that you knew I had violent tendencies all along? |
No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability.
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability. |
Mostly right, but then again I do work through my computer. Bragging - that's a big myth. Big big big myth. 
I noticed the other day on one of the teacher forums that apparently I've claimed to know twelve languages, but it's not so much because I grew up with Norwegian parents and so I got five free languages.  I'm sure my unilingual parents back in Calgary of mixed English and Scottish descent will be surprised to hear they actually speak seven tongues and are actually from Scandinavia. I haven't had the heart to tell them yet. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability. |
Mostly right, but then again I do work through my computer. Bragging - that's a big myth. Big big big myth.
I noticed the other day on one of the teacher forums that apparently I've claimed to know twelve languages, but it's not so much because I grew up with Norwegian parents and so I got five free languages. I'm sure my unilingual parents back in Calgary of mixed English and Scottish descent will be surprised to hear they actually speak seven tongues and are actually from Scandinavia. I haven't had the heart to tell them yet. |
Of course, if I were from Britian, I would probably just say,
"Gee, he was a nice bloke." |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
My comments:
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton
If tomorrow you found out that I was a serial killer would you tell the police that I was the terror of Dave's ESL Cafe, a real ass, and that you knew I had violent tendencies all along? |
Interesting points. A teacher at my secondary school was found guilty of sexual molestation. I remember at the time I heard about the charges (a) being very defensive of him and (b) everyone saying 'he's such a nice / quiet / well-mannered / soft-spoken / gentle / caring person', etc.
I wonder how many of the victims will turn out to be Muslims. My guess is quite a few. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
My comments:
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton
If tomorrow you found out that I was a serial killer would you tell the police that I was the terror of Dave's ESL Cafe, a real ass, and that you knew I had violent tendencies all along? |
No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability.
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No, but he's made his point. People who are basically psycho, or go to great lengths to plan extreme antisocial behavior or actions, often cover their tracks by behaving in the nicest way possible to their immediate neighbors. In order not to arouse suspicion. Regardless of their religion or what culture they come from. Mithridates has made his point that being Muslim has nothing to do with it. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Derrek wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
My comments:
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton
If tomorrow you found out that I was a serial killer would you tell the police that I was the terror of Dave's ESL Cafe, a real ass, and that you knew I had violent tendencies all along? |
No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability.
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No, but he's made his point. People who are basically psycho, or go to great lengths to plan extreme antisocial behavior or actions, often cover their tracks by behaving in the nicest way possible to their immediate neighbors. In order not to arouse suspicion. Regardless of their religion or what culture they come from. Mithridates has made his point that being Muslim has nothing to do with it. |
No, he didn't make his point. I don't see links to quotes making his point. Only things he typed. I'll help you out.
http://slate.msn.com/id/1003418/
"This reached new and astonishing heights with Dahmer. Vernell and Pamela Bass lived in next door to Dahmer. As one paper reported, "Both Vernell and Pamela visited Dahmer's apartment often. He always kept the bedroom [and closets] locked. He had a video camera attached to the ceiling, which recorded every move. Otherwise there was nothing strange, they said." There wasn't? They also noticed the stench of rotting meat from his apartment and they "heard sounds of sawing from his apartment day and night." Downstairs neighbor Aaron Whiteheard said, "One night, I heard what sounded like a kid ... He was crying like his mother had just walloped him. I heard a big falling sound ... like he was being hurt." Yet even after admitting all this, Dahmer's neighbors insisted there was nothing odd about him, that he joined in neighborhood barbecues, that he was "like the average Joe.""
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Now, back to the original point:
And if you read back in the thread, my point is obvious...
People all around here are apologizing for the Muslim religion being "peaceful." But the evidence is to the contrary. Just look around the world and see all of the problems caused by Muslims today. Not just in the Middle East. It's worldwide.
The only defense people seem to have here are the weak "Christians did this 1000 years ago" responses, pointing out a few random non-Mulsim terrorists over the years, and blaming the USA for sponsoring IRA terorrism.
Sure... the majority of Muslims are "nice." Even the ones who commit terror are "nice."
This religion, unlike the random non-muslim terrorists or a Jeffrey Dahmer, who was a mental case, is an organized social, religious and political belief that calls non-believers "infidels." According to their own scripture, it is OK to kill those who don't believe what they believe. This is a hate religion -- plain and simple.
My point is that, based on what their own religious code states, and their actions on a global scale, we should not automatically discount all Muslims as "good."
You can't make the same arugment for Dahmer or other random terrorists because they don't belong to a central faith which states it's OK to kill non-believers.
Now let's look at abortion clinic bombers. Left-wingers hate them. And it causes some Left-wingers to say, "Christians are nutty fanatics that should not be trusted." The abortion bombers murder people and many claim to be "Christian." This is different than the Muslim religion, however. The Christian belief clearly states that murder is WRONG. So the abortion clinic bombers are not true Christians.
Now for the London Bombers and Muslim terrorists around the world. You've got some Muslim folks standing up and saying, "Hey, what the bombers did was wrong" but you don't see any refute of the areas of the Koran which says some actions are OK. None of them will tell you, however, that non-believers of their faith are not "infidels." And what does the Koran say about infidels? I invite you to read below:
QURAN QUOTES AGAINST INFIDELS
2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them.
4:84, Then fight in Allah��s cause.
4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.
5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.
8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.
8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.
9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.
9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.
9:29, Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.
9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed.
9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur��an
9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
22:9, (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).
22:19-22, These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
25:52, So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.
25:68, Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy.
37:22-23, "Bring ye up", it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped- Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire!
47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.
48:13, And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!
48:29, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.
69:30-37, (The stern command will say): "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin."
If you are not a believer of the Muslim faith, then you are a pagan and an infidel. The above quotes pertain directly to YOU.
If the above quotes aren't part of the true Muslim faith, then we need Muslims to stand up and say, "Our book is wrong."
Good luck seeing that happen. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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if the strictly conservative xtians would have their way gay people would hang from every telephone pole.
Read the OT, it's not like early xtians really fine peace loving individuals.
The context of your quran quotes are from such times as that muslims were under attack too.
There are "Factions" and "liberal and conservative" muslims around the world. Don't believe me? too bad for you.
| Quote: |
| People all around here are apologizing for the Muslim religion being "peaceful." But the evidence is to the contrary |
you mean the evidence like the crusades? no ...wait a sec...
no like early mecca and the persecution by jews of the ....no, that's not right either.
OHHH...you are referring to the what...billiion (estimates between 700mill-1.2 bill) muslims around the world EVERYONE of whom would sooner slit your neck than shake your hand.
If you think Islam TRULY is a religion of violence, it would have wiped everything off the planet by now.
Cause apparently, not too much unlike GWB "If you're not with us, yer 'gainst us..."
http://www.mpfweb.org/200110_asa.html
| Quote: |
| According to their own scripture, it is OK to kill those who don't believe what they believe. This is a hate religion -- plain and simple |
whaddya think derreck, are these guys high, stupid or "not representative of the general populace"?
| Quote: |
My point is that, based on what their own religious code states, and their actions on a global scale, we should not automatically discount all Muslims as "good."
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that's funny...earlier your point seemed to be that, "how can any muslim [terrorist] be considered good"? |
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trigger123
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Location: TALKING TO STRANGERS, IN A BETTER PLACE
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability. |
Mostly right, but then again I do work through my computer. Bragging - that's a big myth. Big big big myth.
I noticed the other day on one of the teacher forums that apparently I've claimed to know twelve languages, but it's not so much because I grew up with Norwegian parents and so I got five free languages. I'm sure my unilingual parents back in Calgary of mixed English and Scottish descent will be surprised to hear they actually speak seven tongues and are actually from Scandinavia. I haven't had the heart to tell them yet. |
Of course, if I were from Britian, I would probably just say,
"Gee, he was a nice bloke." |
nah you wouldn't say 'gee'.
unless you were talking to your homie or such like |
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kyber wrote.. The context of your quran quotes are from such times as that muslims were under attack too.
Wether that is true or not those quotes are still in the book.They are interpreted the same way in 2005 as they were back in the day by strict muslims and there are a lot of strict muslims.
The bridge building job the media are doing in the UK is done with all good intentions and is necessary.But going around the markets getting muslims to denounce the attacks is ridiculous.What do they expect them to say.?..."nice one!"....
Theres an elephant in the room and the British have ignored it for too long.
The Muslims in Britain have a problem and its their problem.They should deal with it themselves and be seen to deal with it.
If they dont then some serious questions have to answered about whose side they are on. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Derrek wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
My comments:
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton
If tomorrow you found out that I was a serial killer would you tell the police that I was the terror of Dave's ESL Cafe, a real ass, and that you knew I had violent tendencies all along? |
No, but I might mention that you are obsessive about posting on Daves, reading wilkopedia, and bragging about your language ability.
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No, but he's made his point. People who are basically psycho, or go to great lengths to plan extreme antisocial behavior or actions, often cover their tracks by behaving in the nicest way possible to their immediate neighbors. In order not to arouse suspicion. Regardless of their religion or what culture they come from. Mithridates has made his point that being Muslim has nothing to do with it. |
No, he didn't make his point. I don't see links to quotes making his point. Only things he typed. I'll help you out.
http://slate.msn.com/id/1003418/
"This reached new and astonishing heights with Dahmer. Vernell and Pamela Bass lived in next door to Dahmer. As one paper reported, "Both Vernell and Pamela visited Dahmer's apartment often. He always kept the bedroom [and closets] locked. He had a video camera attached to the ceiling, which recorded every move. Otherwise there was nothing strange, they said." There wasn't? They also noticed the stench of rotting meat from his apartment and they "heard sounds of sawing from his apartment day and night." Downstairs neighbor Aaron Whiteheard said, "One night, I heard what sounded like a kid ... He was crying like his mother had just walloped him. I heard a big falling sound ... like he was being hurt." Yet even after admitting all this, Dahmer's neighbors insisted there was nothing odd about him, that he joined in neighborhood barbecues, that he was "like the average Joe."" |
Yes, he has made his point. According to you, the following was said by the neighbors of one of the London bombing suspects:
| Derrek wrote: |
"He was a good man, quiet," said one parent, speaking outside the school. "
"He was really understanding and he did work for the children and parents."
"Neighbours told how he was not well-known in the Dewsbury Muslim community, but they believed he was a "very pleasant" person.
One neighbour said: "He didn't seem to be an extremist. He was not one to talk about religion. He was generally a very nice bloke."
"One neighbour described the family as "very nice people".
"He said: "We all knew them but I wouldn't say I knew them well. They were just a very nice family."
""He was a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone."
"Neighbours described the graduate, who studied at Leeds Metropolitan University, as a "good Muslim". Others said he was a "nice lad" who could "get on with anyone". |
Mithridates quoted similar comments by neighbors of American mass murders. He didn't provide links but I'm sure if you press him he'll be happy to provide them:
| mithridates wrote: |
"He was shy, a little withdrawn. But not real bizarre."
"he never bothered anyone."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
"a nice guy. Shy person, didn't say much"
"a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid."
-Eric Harris (Columbine)
Furrow's neighbors called him, "a very pleasant individual."
-neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow
Barton's neighbors saw him as "a typical American family man," "a nice guy" who "kept to himself."
-Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton |
Mithridates's point was that antisocial, psychotic and/or terrorist individuals, according to all evidence, often project polite, inoffensive, non-dangerous fronts to their neighbors, regardless of whatever culture they come from or religion they profess. He pointed out that as American psychopaths have done the same, there is no need to bring religion into the issue of explaining the behavior and reactions of the neighbors of said individuals.
The people you quoted are not "excusing" Islam. Because they know Islam itself has nothing to apologize for. None of them said, "I had no idea he was such a Muslim." They're simply expressing their shock at discovering there was a mass-murder living in their neighborhood.
Jeffrey Dalhmer (sp?), Mark Baron, Buford Furrow, and Eric Harris didn't commit their atrocities because they were Christian. Or because they were American. They did them because they were crazy, in the generally accepted sense of the word. I suspect most Muslims in the UK feel the same way about the London bombers. |
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