Korean Job Discussion Forums

philinkorea · Joined: 27 Jan 2003

hi there
i've been doing taekwondo for about 4 months now and have been really enjoying it. since i havnt donme much physical stuff before i set myself an aim to get to black belt at some stage. my mate in england is damm good and trained for a bout 2 years there and got it. i know in england my friend trains with ITF (international taekwondo federation) whereas its WTF here (world)
last week my trainer said about me doing my black belt test whereas you have to do these 8 patterns and spar for a minute. i sort of found it a bit of an anti climax thinking youd have to do a massiuve variety of things and itd take ages. it just seems doing black belt here would be a good small test for me after a few months without being anything big and prestigious as i'd always percieved. being a black belt in a martial art just sounds a big deal.
anyone with any thoughts?

the_beaver · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=1845&start=15

same applies for taekwondo

Dude Love · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Location: Korea

It's all about appearances. Koreans are competitive and want black belts even if they don't deserve them. Instructors will throw black belts at you just because it's good for business. I'd be more impressed with a black belt from home than I'd be with one from here. Any Korean with a black belt who's honest will tell you that they're easy to get and not a big deal here. Does anyone know how this applies to other countries in Asia?

mrroboto · Joined: 29 Mar 2003

speaking of ITF vs WTF, has anyone seen any ITF training groups? I trained ITF for a bit back home, and I can't imagine converting to WTF (especially after all that anti-wtf propaganda the instructors ingrained in me Smile

)

waterbaby · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie

the_beaver · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

A black belt in Korea is not equivalent to a black belt back home. Here a black belt means advanced student. You're not allowed to be an instructor until you get your 4th degree. To get your 4th degree it would take at least 4 years for a diligent student, and longer for anybody going fewer than 4 times a week.

Thomas · Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Neat topic. Definately the time period to get a black belt (1 dan) is shorter in Korea than the states. In the states, it may take 2-3 years. In Korea, it can be done in 12 months (or shorter). The biggest difference I found (personally) is that the schools I trained in in the states focused not just on the sparring aspect, but also heavily on self defence and other topics. The black belt test is pretty tough and few make it there. Lots of adults join TKD for self defence, discipline and what have you. With mature adults controlling the pocketbook, you really need to produce a serious product.
The difference in Korea comes from the fact that not many adults have time to train (yes, I know there are exceptions) and that the real money maker is on kids. Most classes are all kids. Instructors (just like hagwons) must provide a rapid advancement and promotion to prevent kids from going down the street to the next TKD dojang where they test faster. Additionally, many of the kids are not really interested in the arts. They want the black belt because it provides a monetary incentive when the are drafted into the military.
My advice is to find a good school with a great instructor, hopefully that has adult classes. In my own opinion, I trained Taekwondo 2 years in Korea (and 4 years in the US) and enjoyed it. Mainly I developed speed and power and great kicks. I also trained in Hapkido in Korea for 2 years (4 years total in Korea). I found it more adult oriented and loved the breakfalls, self defence aspects, and fighting. By combining all of these skills, I feel like I can wear my black belt confidently. (2 dan TKD, 2 dan Hapkido)

Thomas · Joined: 25 Mar 2003

By the way, about WTF and ITF. ITF has been purged from the South Korea history books due to a big squabble with the founder. It wil be very difficult to find ITF school in Korea, although they do have a homepage and office in Seoul (search on MSN). In Korea, usually a WTF school will not honor your ITF rank, but just go and find a good instructor, train hard and get promoted. You can get cross-registered fairly easily in the states. The main differences incluude some sparring rules, the forms, and the propaganda they feed each other about how bad the other one is (I've trained both).
About ranking time. As far as I know, there is no WTF minimum amount of time to black belt... but in Korea it is usually 12 months. However, there are minimum times to the dans. It is 1 year from 1st to 2nd dan. 2 years from 2nd to 3rd dan, and 2 years from 3rd to 4th dan. so, if you trained hard from white belt to 4th dan (master in most TKD schools)... it would take a minimum of 6 years.
If you are interested in TKD, or the Taegook forms, you can get high quality TKD books in english and Korean at the local book store for about 1/3 of the stateside prices!

Cedar · Posted: Thu May 08, 2003 6:15 am Post subject:

Different arts are different. Black belt times also vary by instructor.

I do two different arts. I got my 3rd dan in one of them after nearly 5 years. In my chayyukegwan, that is normal, even a bit on the short side. My kwanjangnim speaks sneeringly of other neighboring places that give belts too fast. In the two years since I got my 3rd dan, I have done nothing except polish the work I did in the first 5 years by working intensively as an instructor. I haven't taken a single divisional test. In our chayyukegwan after black belt he won't pass anyone until they do it to his specifications. He'll let people take the tests, but if they flub it, they wait for two months to try again. Even the under black belts if they flub it have to try again in five days.

In some other countries black belts do mean more than in Korea. In Korea essentially a black belt is someone who learned (not saying how well) the basics. But even within Korean arts TKD is notoriously "pass them up, pass them up". I mean, 8 mths to a black belt? That's the shortest of any art in Korea, trust me! The rest are at least 10-12 months.

The Cube · Joined: 01 Feb 2003

weatherman · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: Korea

I know nothing about black belts, but I was wondering how many degree of black belts there are? I have heard of people talking about first, second, third degree belts, is there a seventh for instance?

cheem · Joined: 18 Apr 2003

The highest I've seen is 9th degree, and there seems to be only a handful of these in each discipline. I think you need a long white beard to qualify.

Stunted Wookie · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Sound Studio

In many systems their parent group or associations have 10 degrees of BB.
Typically the tenth is reserved only for the head of the style. For example my first BB is in Uechi-Ryu, the head Gradmaster Uechi holds the tenth degree...its unlikely anyone else ever will except his succesor.
Silly though I have met 45-50 year old teachers in US/ Can. that claim to hold a legitimate 10th degree.....BS...or issued from their own association rather than a world level style org.

Saying that you should note that different ranks are awarded at different times for different styles. I don't think you can blanket the times required for a certian degree. Common sense should tell you if the rank is too high for that person/ group.
Working towards a BB should warrent 3-4 years solid training, its nice when a school requires certain competition achievements as well 'to put you money where your mouth' is so to speak.
When you are here finding the 6 month BB program, well don't take it too seriously. TKD is great for fitness but it is not self defense. the BB to me is a sporting rank not a martial art rank.
To back up that point...
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=4130

To put it in another context...self defense training has to be practical...high kicking is not. Put a student in a pair of jeans then have them try to defend using TKD.....nuff said.

cheem · Joined: 18 Apr 2003

Thomas · Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Well, to respond to the "TKD blackbelts are no good at self defence/useless/sports orineted/etc." and the 'I know a 5 year old black belt that I can beat up" types of posts, I have a fairly standard reply:
Every martial arts style and stylist is only as good as they are taught and how well they learn. There is no magic martial arts style that can beat everyone. Can a TKD black belt beat a boxer? Maybe... depends on the individual and how they have trained. If you think that TKD artists have no self-defence skills, grab one (come down to my school and you can try in an safe learning environment) and see what happens. If you can beat a 5 year old black belt, good for you, I can take most 5 year olds also.

Sometimes it seems that people who have never trained in the martial arts, or have had a lesson or two, love to knock down other styles or individuals that they have seen. Remember that it is the individual that is more important. Some martial artists train for sports competition and some for self defence. Some train for multiple reasons. Regardless, when you meet a black belt, you can tell if it was earned or not. Learning a martial art is not for the purpose of being the greatest street fighter around, instead it develops a way of life, morals and ethics to live by. A true black belt will not be concerned with rolling around in the street and will instead use all means necessary to avoid violence. Anyway, that's my rant. If you have other questions... let me know