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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: New Australia terror laws delayed |
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Now this is the first sensible polictical act on terror laws I have heard since 2001. Would that my own government had the wit of the Strines.
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| Plans by Australia's prime minister to bring in tough new anti-terror laws have been delayed in parliament due to opposition from regional leaders. |
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| The most controversial element is a shoot-to-kill provision, giving police officers the right to use lethal force in the pursuit of suspected terrorists. |
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| Australia has never suffered a major terrorist attack on home soil, but has tightened security since the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US. |
And that says it all and makes it look more like an increase in government power and sacrifice of liberty with no visible benefit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4395056.stm |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| no visible benefit. |
Surely, the visible benefit is that they have not yet endured a terrorist attack, although they are a target for Islamic terrorists. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Those laws, if implemented, will have an expiry date in 5 to 10 years. But yes, they are not at all proportionate to the risk. Being allowed to lock people up for 2 weeks on suspicion alone? No wonder churches and the legal fraternity are condemning it. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:56 am Post subject: |
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From the article;
Muslim leaders have also expressed fears that the laws could spread intolerance.
Again, muslim leaders try to paint laws aimed at defending national security as intolerant, rather than as a natural reaction to the muslim intolerance that leads to people being blown to bits while enjoying a drink on the beach. The 'intolerance' they should be concerned about is the sermons and calls to Jihad being spread by some of their co-religionists. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| But yes, they are not at all proportionate to the risk. |
What is a greater threat to liberty:-
A. A few radical muslims locked up?, or
B. A suicide bombing in downtown Sydney? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Did anyone see Phillip Ruddock interviewed on the BBC last night?- defending the new laws: a good programme.
Australians have been attacked twice offshore in bali, as well as the govt. mission in Singapore and they have also disbanded a terrorist cell on the mainland.
Certainly a good step to introduce such a law at this point.
Especially as (typically) the Muslim population in Australia is skyrocketting.
The most recent Australian Census in 2001 revealed a remarkable rate of growth in Australia��s Muslim population. The Census listed 281 576 Australian Muslims, an increase of some 40 per cent in five years, while the Australian population as a whole only grew by 5.7 per cent in the same period.And these figures may be very conservative. Some recent estimates suggest Australian Muslims now number more than 300 000. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| But yes, they are not at all proportionate to the risk. |
What is a greater threat to liberty:-
A. A few radical muslims locked up?, or
B. A suicide bombing in downtown Sydney? |
I'm all for locking up militant Muslims, given there is credible evidence to do so.
Don't you think that giving police carte blanche is a great threat to liberty in itself? Who's going to police the police? They will virtually have license to lock up anyone they please, and be able to justify doing so by filing it under "terror threat". I simply do not trust the police that much. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
I'm all for locking up militant Muslims, given there is credible evidence to do so.
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Uptil now Australian laws favor muslims at the expense of non-muslims.
Australians taken to Court to Silence Criticism of Islam
http://www.domini.org/openbook/australia200309012.htm |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| The British government, in a pathetic attempt to hang on to the muslim vote is trying to enact a similar piece of legislation in the UK which would be used, as this case demonstrates, to muzzle criticism of Islam. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:53 am Post subject: |
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From the article posted by Rapier:-
The Victorian Racial and Religious Vilification Act was passed in 2001 and has yet to be fully put to the test. It was established in order to promote
intercultural and interfaith harmony in Victoria, in support of democratic
ideals, in itself a worthy aim. Victoria has established an Equal Opportunity Commission which is empowered to develop programs under this legislation. One of their programs, called �Stand up to Racism�, promotes positive regard for Islam's stand on universal human rights.
In this ongoing cultural war, the truth is no longer important. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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http://au.news.yahoo.com/051102/21/wm53.html
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Wednesday November 2, 01:26 PM
PM warns of 'specific' terror threat
Prime Minister John Howard says the Federal Government has received specific intelligence about a potential terrorist threat in Australia.
At a press conference with Federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock by his side, Mr Howard would not give further details, citing operational security reasons.
"The Government has received specific intelligence from police information this week, which gives cause for serious concern about a potential terrorist threat," Mr Howard told reporters.
"I do not intend, and can not, go into any of the operational details. We have seen material, it is a cause for concern."
Mr Howard says the Senate will be recalled tomorrow to pass an amendment relating to the description of a terrorist act.
He says the amendment to existing counter-terrorism laws would allow authorities to deal with the threat.
He says the amendment will be introduced to the House of Representatives this afternoon after Question Time.
The amendment is separate from the Government's proposed counter-terrorism legislation that Mr Howard says will be introduced to the Parliament soon.
Mr Howard says the specific terrorist threat became known recently but he has refused to detail the information.
"All the detail of this information has been provided by me and the Attorney-General, to the Leader of the Opposition, and to the shadow minister for homeland security," he said.
The announcement from Mr Howard came as ASIO in its annual report publicly outlined the threats to Australia.
ASIO says that some of the extremists it has been investigating were born in Australia. |
How convenient for the government that this threat suddenly appears right before the terror law legislation is put before parliament.
I smell a rat. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
How convenient for the government that this threat suddenly appears right before the terror law legislation is put before parliament.
I smell a rat. |
How many times must Australians be attacked by terrorists before it takes measures to protect itself? For the sake of bali victims..will you support laws to protect your fellow citizens?
You have already got a ticking time bomb in terms of a mushrooming muslim population. |
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deessell
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
http://au.news.yahoo.com/051102/21/wm53.html
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Wednesday November 2, 01:26 PM
PM warns of 'specific' terror threat
Prime Minister John Howard says the Federal Government has received specific intelligence about a potential terrorist threat in Australia.
At a press conference with Federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock by his side, Mr Howard would not give further details, citing operational security reasons.
"The Government has received specific intelligence from police information this week, which gives cause for serious concern about a potential terrorist threat," Mr Howard told reporters.
"I do not intend, and can not, go into any of the operational details. We have seen material, it is a cause for concern."
Mr Howard says the Senate will be recalled tomorrow to pass an amendment relating to the description of a terrorist act.
He says the amendment to existing counter-terrorism laws would allow authorities to deal with the threat.
He says the amendment will be introduced to the House of Representatives this afternoon after Question Time.
The amendment is separate from the Government's proposed counter-terrorism legislation that Mr Howard says will be introduced to the Parliament soon.
Mr Howard says the specific terrorist threat became known recently but he has refused to detail the information.
"All the detail of this information has been provided by me and the Attorney-General, to the Leader of the Opposition, and to the shadow minister for homeland security," he said.
The announcement from Mr Howard came as ASIO in its annual report publicly outlined the threats to Australia.
ASIO says that some of the extremists it has been investigating were born in Australia. |
How convenient for the government that this threat suddenly appears right before the terror law legislation is put before parliament.
I smell a rat. |
I agree with you. The timing is to convenient for me. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Uptil now Australian laws favor muslims at the expense of non-muslims. |
Aren't Australian laws based on the ancient Anglo-Saxon principle of 'innocent till proven guilty'? In that sense, the law does favor the accused. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| no visible benefit. |
Surely, the visible benefit is that they have not yet endured a terrorist attack, although they are a target for Islamic terrorists. |
Thus might one say that such draconian measures are not necessary? Have not the present laws worked?
Are you not just a little worried at the right of the police to shoot to kill a SUSPECT?
At a rough guess, more have died in the Iraq debacle than in all the terrorism in the past, say, 40 years. Of course, I could be wrong, that's a 6-pint statistic. |
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