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Oil Execs defend record 3rd Quarter profits...
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am    Post subject: Oil Execs defend record 3rd Quarter profits... Reply with quote

By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 36 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The chiefs of five major oil companies defended the industry's huge profits Wednesday at a Senate hearing where lawmakers said they should explain prices and assure people they're not being gouged.

There is a "growing suspicion that oil companies are taking unfair advantage," Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., said as the hearing opened in a packed Senate committee room.

"The oil companies owe the country an explanation," he said.

Lee Raymond, chairman of Exxon Mobil Corp., said he recognizes that high gasoline prices "have put a strain on Americans' household budgets" but he defended his companies huge profits, saying petroleum earnings "go up and down" from year to year.

ExxonMobil, the worlds' largest privately owned oil company, earned nearly $10 billion in the third quarter. Raymond was joined at the witness table by the chief executives of Chevron, ConocoPhillips, BPAmerica and Shell Oil USA.

Together the companies earned more than $25 billion in profits in the July-September quarter as the price of crude oil hit $70 a barrel and gasoline surged to record levels after the disruptions of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
Raymond said the profits are in line with other industries when profits are compared to the industry's enormous revenues.

Democrats had wanted the executives to testify under oath, but Republicans rejected the idea. "If I were a witness I would demand to be put under oath," said Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii. The soaring prices have sent shivers through a Congress worried about political fallout.

The White House said President Bush was concerned about energy prices.

"Energy prices have been too high and energy companies have realized significant increases in profits," said spokesman Scott McClellan. "It's important that the private sector be good corporate citizens and invest in the energy infrastructure and support those who are in need."

A number of Democrats, joined by a few Republicans, have called for a windfall profits tax on oil companies.

Domenici said he opposed such a move saying "it didn't work before and probably won't work again." The government imposed taxes on oil company windfall profits in the 1970s, resulting in a drop in investment in oil development.

The executives hoped to dampen any further momentum for calls for taxing windfall oil company profits, something still viewed as a longshot but also no longer out of the question. Such a tax could inhibit investment in refineries or oil exploration and production, the industry argues.

James Mulla, chairman of ConocoPhillips, said "we are ready open our records" to dispute allegations of price gouging. ConocoPhillips earned $3.8 billion in the third quarter, an 89 percent increase over a year earlier. But he said that represents only a 7.7 percent profit margin for every dollar of sales. "We do not consider that a windfall," said Mulva.

David O'Reilly, chairman of Chevron, attributed the high energy prices to tight supplies even before the Gulf hurricanes hit and said his company is "investing aggressively in the development of new energy supplies."

The oil executives said their companies spend tens of billions of dollars in investments.

Shell earned $9 billion in the third quarter, said John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co., but he said over the last five years the company's investment in U.S. operations was equal to its income from U.S. sales.

The oil industry's record third-quarter profits — at a time when motorists were reeling from unprecedentedly high gasoline costs and warned of huge heating bills this winter — have caught the attention of both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. Some analysts predict the 29 largest oil companies will earn $96 billion this year.

"Consumers need relief from high energy prices," Sen. Byron Dorgan (news, bio, voting record), D-N.D., said, reiterating his call for a windfall profits tax on oil companies. "Talk is cheap. The price of energy is not. Congress needs to act."

By most accounts, the hearing Wednesday was to have much rhetoric and result in little action.

Lawmakers, especially on the Republican side, "need some cover in the face of record-breaking profits," said Christine Tezak, an energy analyst for Stanford Washington Research Group. "Expect a lot of criticism ... but there is far more rhetoric than votes in support of windfall profits taxes."

The industry argues that the run-up of gasoline prices, which began earlier in the year, stems from high global crude oil costs and growing demand for gasoline this past summer, followed by a disruption of gasoline supplies when the hurricanes shut down more than a dozen refineries on the Gulf Coast.

Prices since have retreated from more than $3 a gallon to an average nationwide last week of $2.37, according to the Energy Department.

While the loudest calls for action against oil companies have come from Democrats, some Republicans have expressed similar frustrations.

"They are unhappy with the behavior of the oil companies," said Republican pollster David Winston, who advises GOP congressional leaders. "These are free market guys. They believe the market works. But in this case they are concerned that the consumer was clearly taken advantage of ... and they're pretty angry about it."
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternative energy solutions can't come soon enough.
The wrong administration to push and fund initiatives on them site in the White House.
How does Bush reconcile the need to reduce oil dependency with his relationships with big oil and the Saudis?
That issue probably keeps him awake at night more than Iraq.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtmljon stewart makes a good news story outta this...actually... a bit depressing.
Quote:
Democrats had wanted the executives to testify under oath, but Republicans rejected the idea.
re: this
a democrat on the panel put forth the motion that the executives be sworn in...it was seconded before anything. Then the republican chair (from alaska?...name escapes me...) simply shouted them down and said (paraphrase) "they will not be sworn in and that is the end of the matter".
LAAAAAAAMMMMEEEE.
I mean, how blantantly ridiculous.
Quote:
Lee Raymond, chairman of Exxon Mobil Corp., said he recognizes that high gasoline prices "have put a strain on Americans' household budgets" but he defended his companies huge profits, saying petroleum earnings "go up and down" from year to year.
oh yes.... But i'm curious Mr raymond: When was the last time one of the 5 major companies had skimpy profits?
and what did they say?
"We take all of our profits and spend them in developing our company".
wait sorry...i thought that profits were what was recorded AFTER ALL expenditures were taken out?
hm...
wait the video..
"Petrol Sounds" it's called...
JS has a few goodies here...
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is just like all other industries, their profits go up and down.

Lst time they had low profits you ask? Late 90s.

Don't buy oil co. stocks now. They won't go up much more, and they'll go down in a year or two. So says history at least.
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4 months left



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
it is just like all other industries, their profits go up and down.

Lst time they had low profits you ask? Late 90s.

Don't buy oil co. stocks now. They won't go up much more, and they'll go down in a year or two. So says history at least.


Sorry man, but that's just terribly wrong.

When's the last time there was a new oil discovery? Have you heard of Hubbert's Peak - a model of known reserves, and proposed, in 1956, in a paper he presented [1] at a meeting of the American Petroleum Institute, that oil production in the continental United States would peak between 1965 and 1970; and that world production would peak in 2000. U.S. oil production peaked in 1971, and has been decreasing since then.

Oil companies conservatively estimate profits on much lower oil prices $35 a barrel or lower. A few warm days in the northeast U.S. and prices fall. Just wait until the cold weather comes, the US and Canadian governments have added to programs to help low income people to help with heating costs.

There are no new oil refineries being built and it takes 5 to 10 years to build a new one.

The big thing these days are the oil sands in Canada where the oil is embedded in sand. It's a very expensive process to extract the oil from the sand as it has to be heated but with high oil prices it is profitable to do so when oil is over about $35 a barrel.

There might be a short term dip in stock prices but in the long term it is a no brainer to buy oil stocks. If you are wondering what do with the money you've saved teaching, oil stocks are a great investment.

As with any stock you must do your due diligence.
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4 months left



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khyber wrote:
[url]I mean, how blantantly ridiculous.
Quote:
Lee Raymond, chairman of Exxon Mobil Corp., said he recognizes that high gasoline prices "have put a strain on Americans' household budgets" but he defended his companies huge profits, saying petroleum earnings "go up and down" from year to year.
oh yes.... But i'm curious Mr raymond: When was the last time one of the 5 major companies had skimpy profits?
and what did they say?
"We take all of our profits and spend them in developing our company".
wait sorry...i thought that profits were what was recorded AFTER ALL expenditures were taken out?
hm...
wait the video..
"Petrol Sounds" it's called...
JS has a few goodies here...


Profits are recorded after all expenditures are taken out. The profits are then used for R&D and capital expenditure - thus they become expenses in the next year. His statement is correct.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 months left wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
it is just like all other industries, their profits go up and down.

Lst time they had low profits you ask? Late 90s.

Don't buy oil co. stocks now. They won't go up much more, and they'll go down in a year or two. So says history at least.


Sorry man, but that's just terribly wrong.

When's the last time there was a new oil discovery? Have you heard of Hubbert's Peak - a model of known reserves, and proposed, in 1956, in a paper he presented [1] at a meeting of the American Petroleum Institute, that oil production in the continental United States would peak between 1965 and 1970; and that world production would peak in 2000. U.S. oil production peaked in 1971, and has been decreasing since then.

Oil companies conservatively estimate profits on much lower oil prices $35 a barrel or lower. A few warm days in the northeast U.S. and prices fall. Just wait until the cold weather comes, the US and Canadian governments have added to programs to help low income people to help with heating costs.

There are no new oil refineries being built and it takes 5 to 10 years to build a new one.

The big thing these days are the oil sands in Canada where the oil is embedded in sand. It's a very expensive process to extract the oil from the sand as it has to be heated but with high oil prices it is profitable to do so when oil is over about $35 a barrel.

There might be a short term dip in stock prices but in the long term it is a no brainer to buy oil stocks. If you are wondering what do with the money you've saved teaching, oil stocks are a great investment.

As with any stock you must do your due diligence.


I never said they were a bad long-term investment. I merely said their stock has peaked. I should have said for now. I don't think it will jump much more higher in the short-term (meaning in the next couple years).

Like I said, look at history. People predicted that high oil prices were here to stay in the early 80s (partialy due to that theory), then what do you know, the market dropped substantially.

That being said, the developed world is more resourceful and efficient than it was in that earlier period, so higher oil prices haven't hit their economies as hard this time around.
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4 months left



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:

I never said they were a bad long-term investment. I merely said their stock has peaked. I should have said for now. I don't think it will jump much more higher in the short-term (meaning in the next couple years).

Like I said, look at history. People predicted that high oil prices were here to stay in the early 80s (partialy due to that theory), then what do you know, the market dropped substantially.

That being said, the developed world is more resourceful and efficient than it was in that earlier period, so higher oil prices haven't hit their economies as hard this time around.


I think the short term here might be a few weeks. Oil stocks have been correcting the last few weeks. Like I said before, oil companies are basing their estimates on a much lower oil price - around $35 rather than the $50 to $70 range oil has been in recently.

True the world is more efficient but you have about 2.5 BILLION people in China and India and their economies will be growing at a double digit pace for years to come. The amount of cars on the road in China are just a drop in the bucket now.

Unless there is a gigantic oil discovery made, we will have to adjust to higher oil prices.

We each have our own opinion and that what makes a market. I've bought a few stocks - Encana and Suncor on the pullbacks will add to these positions and others.
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4 months left



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuwait's biggest field starts to run out of oil

http://www.ameinfo.com/71519.html
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is populist chicanery. The article above references how taxing windfalls on oil profits in the 70s only resulted in a diminution of oil investments, which is the kind of policy that only turns around and reduces supply. I'm no defender of corporate interests, and apparenty these oil companies contributed none of their profits to Katrina victims. And as always, Ted Stevens is slime. But, the politicians only want to respond to a major irritant to the American people without actually implementing the kind of solution that might make the American people have to do something.

A gas tax is no simple solution, and there may well be short-term drawbacks. Done well, however, the resulting higher prices on gasoline can stimulate investment in gas conservation and the revenues could be diverted to later disasters. It is only natural that given the destruction of so many refineries on the coast (I remember vaguely a freak fire only a month or two before Katrina at most that destroyed a major Texas refinery) that the prices would go up. The government needs to respond to these disasters better, and also keep themselves financed. I think both 4 months and Bucheon Bum would agree despite their differences that this oil problem is not going to go away. So, we need to implement long-term solutions for moderating consumption rather than pillory oil executives for profits.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"A car that can go from zero to 60 in four seconds and get more than 50 miles to the gallon would be enough to pique any driver's interest.

So who do we have to thank for it. Ford? GM? Toyota? No — just Victor, David, Cheeseborough, Bruce, and Kosi, five kids from the auto shop program at West Philadelphia High School."

-- CBS News, 2/17/06


http://www.wanttoknow.info/060303carenginebreakthrough
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the days when air conditioning was new, inefficient and very expensive. the Government decided to help out by placing big orders with the fledgling companies. The result was a kind of investment in the little companies. Economies of scale were suddenly achieveable, technological innovation was stimulated, thriving new companies hired new employees. Pretty good bang for the buck.

This is the kind of investment Congress should be studying now, only directed at various alternative energy sources. It would promote oil conservation, build up new industries, create serious competition for the oil giants (no bad thing) and encourage energy independence.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Done well, however, the resulting higher prices on gasoline can stimulate investment in gas conservation and the revenues could be diverted to later disasters
I wonder if its fair to say that taxes will actually cause less consumption of fuel. My guess is? No.
It's not like smoking or booze. In the end, people CAN see those as luxuries.
I think overcoming the concept of the car itself as a luxury (and not simply the "luxury car" as a luxury) is the BIGGEST stumbling block toward fossil fuel consumption.

just for gits and shiggles i'll throw these two profit graphs up for a coupla companies...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=XOM&t=5y
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CVX&t=5y
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khyber wrote:
Quote:
Done well, however, the resulting higher prices on gasoline can stimulate investment in gas conservation and the revenues could be diverted to later disasters
I wonder if its fair to say that taxes will actually cause less consumption of fuel. My guess is? No.
It's not like smoking or booze. In the end, people CAN see those as luxuries.
I think overcoming the concept of the car itself as a luxury (and not simply the "luxury car" as a luxury) is the BIGGEST stumbling block toward fossil fuel consumption.

just for gits and shiggles i'll throw these two profit graphs up for a coupla companies...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=XOM&t=5y

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CVX&t=5y


Interesting graphs.

Hopefully those oil companies are investing their newfound worth in implementing greater security around refineries, pipelines, and oil fields themselves. We wouldn't want Al Qaeda or anyone else to succeed in producing a massive feat of economic sabotage.

I suppose you are right about the gas tax, but at least it is a form of regulating oil companies' profits that require equivalent sacrifices from the consumers as they do from the suppliers. But, as you say, if people are still smoking cigarettes with the ungodly taxes put on them in North America, that doesn't mean the gas tax alone will solve our consumption problems.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gas taxes are one thing, but the small perks that hybrid vehicle users get seem to be fun too:

Quote:
* The purchase of hybrid cars qualifies for a $2000 tax deduction on the IRS 1040 form for the year of 2003. The deduction reduces by $500 each year until it reaches zero. HR 1308 Sec. 319 proposed the phasing out of the deduction to put on hold for the year 2004 and 2005 (i.e., hybrid car buyers can enjoy the $2000 deduction before the phasing out resumes at $500 in 2006).
* The Federal tax deduction will turn into a tax credit starting Jan 1, 2006. However only 60,000 new cars sold by each car manufacturer would qualify for such tax credit.
* Many states give tax credits to hybrid car buyers.
* Certain states (e.g., California, Virginia and Florida) allow singly-occupied hybrid vehicles to enter the HOV lanes on the highway. Initially, the Federal Highway Administration ruled that this was a violation of federal statute[15] until August 10, 2005 when George W. Bush signed the Transportation Equity Act of 2005 into law.
* Some states, e.g. California, exempt hybrid cars from the biennial smog inspection, which costs over $50 (as of 2004).
* Hybrid cars can go on certain toll roads for free.
* City of San Jose, CA issues a free parking tag for hybrid cars that were purchased at a San Jose dealership. The qualified owners do not have to pay for parking in any city garage or road side parking meters
* City of Los Angeles, CA offers free parking to all hybrid vehicles starting on October 1, 2004. The experiment is an extension to an existing offer of free parking for all pure electrical vehicles.
* In October, 2005, City of Baltimore, MD started to offer discount on monthly parking in the city parking lots, and is considering free meter parking for hybrid vehicles. On November 3, 2005, the Boston Globe reports that the city council of Boston is considering the same treatment for hybrid cars.
* Annual vehicle registration fees in the District of Columbia are half ($36) that paid for conventionally vehicles ($72).
* Drivers of hybrid vehicles in the United Kingdom benefit from the lowest band of Vehicle Excise Duty (car tax) which is based on CO2 emissions. In London, these vehicles are also exempt from the £8 ($14) daily congestion charge in Central London.
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