Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Lavender]

Hi all,

I've been reading various posts by people regarding work in Korea. It seems that there are far too many "complaints" and "misfortunes" related to teaching in Korea. I've never been to Korea and am seriously considering entering the ESL industry.

I have a question for all those teachers out there: does the "negative" treatment of teachers by Korean schools, directors, and administrators, only apply to FOREIGN (ie: non-Korean nationals) teachers? or have you noticed that, not being paid, being let go without any notice to save paying severance payments etc, something that happens to Korean english teachers as well? Also, do you think this kind of treatment is the NORM in Korean business practise?

Thanks for your input.

[Austin]

For starters, you have to understand the nature of sites like this one. The majority of the people that post here regularly have not adjusted well to Korean society, as they spend their free time on the Internet, rather than experiencing Korea. Moreover, people that have established a healthy social structure in Korea are extremely unlikely to care to spend their spare time posting how successful and great their life is. Therefore, you are left with a very unbalanced and unrepresentative slice of the true experience that is Korea.

You say you have a question for all of those �teachers out there,� but you will likely only receive responses from the likes of those that I described above.

Do you really want to take advice from people that are negative and have nothing better to do than complain about everything in life?

Admittedly, some of the stuff that I read here makes me laugh. I wonder how it must be for some people to be so miserable with their lives that all they can do is moan and complain.

People are not treated any differently here than any other part of the world in general. There are always going to be exceptions wherever you go, so you will have to really understand the entire story to appreciate what truly happened in many of the cases that you will read about on this site.

I have always asserted that much of the poor treatment that occurs here is earned here. People are seldom arbitrary and random in their actions, most of the time we are very deliberate. The fact that some foreigners here have failed to learn basic social and cultural practices, speaks to why conflicts arise.

For example, if your employer hires you site unseen, and upon your first face-to-face meeting they are short and cold to you, you might have a potential problem. Depending on how you are treated in the following days, you will know one important fact; either they do not like your �look� or your �feel,� or they do. However, the rub comes because most people�s egos could never comprehend the former as an option. It is compounded, because Koreans tend not to be confrontational, so rather than being straightforward and saying �I don�t like you,� they will treat you poorly until you quit.

Certainly, I can come up with examples as the days are long, but the key to your success will depend on your ability to understand your environment, interpret what is happening, and take action that will further your cause in a selfless bent. Egos are the cause of half of the conflicts of the world, while the environment causes the other half. If you want to avoid these conflicts, then you need to stroke those egos around you and create a safe environment for your colleagues and supervisors. If you fail to do either, you may suffer the consequence of bruising another's ego or contributing to the formation of a hostile workplace.

True Machiavellians thrive in Korea. The clever and shrewd will post no complaints or compliments, as the last thing they want is to invite attention where it is neither wanted nor welcome!

SCSA

[kylehawkins2000]

What a bunch of Bush!

[Horangi Munshin]

It is normal for Korean workers to be expected to do overtime without pay. I know of many Korean bosses who will pull tricks on their Korean employees, involving pay, conditions, etc etc. So if they do it to their own on a regular basis, why not on foreigners? I've worked at four schools here, one really bad, one good, one great and one currently bad.

Austin made some good points, although they were carefully veiled.

Like anywhere else, if you do what you're told, kiss everybody's ass and accept the crap thrown your way then you will do fine.

On the other hand. In my experience if you do this in Korea things will get worse for you. Being a door mat invites people to wipe their feet on you.

but hey generally things aren't any worse here than back home

[The Bobster]

SCSA a lot of people will argue with most of what you say here, but I'll stick to this one :

[Gord]

[Austin]

Well, if adjusting well to Korean society means complaining and bemoaning daily life here, then you are correct, and I need to retract my statement. However, I was associating and equating 'adjusting well to Korean society' with being positive, happy, and finding the beauty in every day.

Sorry, but I do not believe that the length of stay necessarily means that those people have adjusted well to Korea. They may very well feel trapped and isolated, and that is why they seek comfort on the Internet (misery loving company and all). Better yet, they may well have difficulty engaging in society in general, and Korea may be a good place for them to feel anonymous.

Nonetheless, I agree with you that nothing is fair, as they may very well have experienced Korea, just not the Korea that I experience.

SCSA

[kimcheeking]

[kylehawkins2000]

Sorry, my last post should not have said that Austin's whole post was Bush.....just the first part about the people that post on this site. You make some very valid points but I take exception to your generalizations about the people here.

I think there is a real cross section of foreigners on this board. A fair number are not even in Korea, and some have never been here. There are many complainers, but I believe there are just as many people with positive things to say. Just look under 'new posts since your last visit' and scan the titles of the posts. THere are some complaints but there are very many positive and interesting things said.

I do not believe that most of the posters here are closed minded people that sit in front of their computers all day with nothing better to do but complain. It is obvious to me that there are all sorts of people here. Just write a post asking about how to get involved in a sports team or social event and see how many responses you get. Or write about the things you don't like about Korea and see how many people stand up to defend Korea.

I like being here. I'm here by choice. I find this an exciting place to be in a time of rapid change. I am well adjusted and have a number of Korean friends. I take my job seriously. I socialize with both foreigners and Koreans. Quite frankly, I think the people that are not able to adapt, or have social-adjustment problems, usually dont stick around very long, and thus you won't find alot of them on this site.

[steroidmaximus]

Something just struck me as odd: Austin seems to spend a lot of time here, and most of what he does is complain.

[tomato]

Hello, Lavender!

I've had a few bumps, but have never for a minute regretted coming here.

My first job was in Kimcheon. A guy and his girlfriend applied for a position which was being vacated by another teacher who was leaving at about the same time my contract was up. The guy and his girlfriend were a team and refused to be split.

The boss made a feeble excuse not to renew my contract.

I got another job real quick.

My second job was in Kumi. The boss renewed my contract for the second year. I had it written in the contract that I would only work at the kiddy school. Soon after that, she needed someone to work mornings at the kiddy school and afternoons at the adult school across town.

The boss made a feeble excuse to fire me.

I got another job real quick.

My third job was here in Hongseong. The boss tried to get me to teach traditional Korean style but I adamantly refused. She tried to fire me, but she couldn't find a replacement. Then she took an ESL methods course and found out to her amazement that everything I told her was true.

I'm now in my second year in Honseong, and I intend to be here for a long time.

The bosses are jerks here, but the bosses everywhere are jerks.

[waterbaby]

In my experience, foreign teachers and Korean teachers have been treated equally badly. I think the distinction though is that the KT's I've worked with, have just swallowed it and not fought back. Other foreign co-workers and I were always very vocal when we felt wronged - ex. no medical insurance, taking too much tax etc.

I asked the KT's many times why they wouldn't complain, for ex. at a new policy change that makes them have to work an extra 4 hours a week for no extra pay... but they were too scared to confront the Director and didn't want to risk losing their jobs.

Even at my current job where I am the only foreign teacher, if we (my KT co-worker and I) want something done or to change something, I'm the one that has to ask as I seem to have more clout and they listen to me. They ignore her.

I have one theory about the poor treatment of Korean teachers. At my last hakwon, there were 12 KTs and within my 12 months of working there, I worked with at least 30 different KT's ... that's 2.5 KT teachers leaving every month. As soon as one left, there'd be another teacher in the following day, the "revolving door" we used to call it. The KT's may have felt "replaceable" and therefore unwilling to jeopordise their job by speaking up for their rights.

[Austin]

Hawkins:

I apologize for the generalization. I rarely make them, as they are seldom accurate. I have only been back to this site for about ten days, so I obviously have no idea about the majority of people here now. I suppose my comment stemmed from my perceptions from the first five years of visiting this site. Admittedly, things have changed a fair bit.

I appreciate you calling me on it, as we all need to have our blinders adjusted now and again. However, I still disagree with your claim that there are just as many positive contributors (it is just the nature of the beast).

It is good to read that you enjoy being here. We share similar reasons for appreciating our experience in Korea.

Maximus:

I have definitely been spending much time here since my return, but fear not, I will be moving on shortly, as my downtime is limited. However, I take exception to your view that most of what I do here is complain.

My focus, if any, is to voice an alternative explanation than what is presented here by others. I am sorry that a moderator, such as you, would view the submission of a different perspective as a complaint. Frankly, I was surprised to read your disparaging remarks and name-calling in response to a post I made a few days ago that merely posed a few questions along with stating a few facts, since you are a moderator. I would have thought that they would hold you to a higher standard, as I certainly was not making it personal.

Why would you take that road? Do not you think that you should be setting an example? Why cannot you state your view and argue your points based on their merits, as opposed to making personal attacks against the author?

SCSA

[tomato]

Hello, Lavender!

There are a lot of happy foreigners in Korea, but the unhappy foreigners bully us. So we're afraid to post on this board. There are a few standard responses which we get, and I have listed them on a previous thread. For those who have seen this list before, I apologize for the repetition:

■ "If you see anything good about Korea, then you are not looking deeply enough under the surface. In fact, you are a naive, gullible, fool."

■ "You can't possibly be happy here. You must be compensating. You're like a white person who shakes hands with every black person he sees."

■ "If you're better off here than you were in your own country, then you must have been a real loser in your own country."

■ "If you're loyal to Korea, then you're a traitor to your own country. You didn't give a hoot in hades what happened on nine-eleven, do you!"

■ "So you like Koreans better than you like us, huh? All right, then, reject us! See if we care!"

■ "What right do you have to be happy when we are unhappy? Don't you know there is a Law of Conservation of Happiness?"

■ "Oh! So you're happier than we are! So you must think you're better than we are! Well, touch you!"

■ "You're a Goody Two Shoes! Don't you know that saying nice things about Korea on the eslcafe message board is like saying nice things about students in the teachers' lounge?"

[tomato]

Hello, Lavender!

Thank you for your letter!

I shall answer your questions to the best of my ability:

■ I wanted to know if there are still jobs widely available there

I think there are. My last job switch was over a year ago, but I had a riff with my present employer a few months ago. I went on a job hunt and I'm still getting replies in my inbox.

■ what schools are good/bad in your view to try out for

There are blacklists on the Internet. I've forgotten the URL addresses, but other people on this message board will know.

The standard questions are about housing, work hours, work on weekend, holidays, vacation, and class size. But I'll suggest a few more:

One good question to ask the director is "What textbooks do you use?"
The Parade series is impossible to teach out of. I think they came out with a similar series named Balloons.

Another good question is whether or not you will be allowed to set the rate through which the class progresses through the textbook. Koreans and foreigners seem to differ widely on that matter.

Other than that, different schools are good for different people. If you like to follow a set curriculum, there are some good schools for you. Ding Ding Dang is a big chain which sets its own curriculum. Some directors are agreeable, some aren't, so the chain has been unjustly maligned.

On the other hand, if you like to make your own games, books, and flash cards, there are directors who will grab you in a heartbeat. Show a sample of your work and see what kind of reaction you get.

Ask about the age of the students. If you enjoy both kids and adults, you're better rounded than most people I know. Even for those who enjoy teaching elementary school kids, teaching kindergarten could be a challenge. It could be the toughest job you'll ever love or the toughest job you'll ever hate.

Ask if there are regular teachers' meetings. I've forgotten the name, but there is a chain of schools in which the teachers take turns giving lectures and demonstrations at regular meetings. I think I would enjoy that, but some of the teachers in this chain don't.

Do you want a foreign language experience in which you have to get by speaking Korean? Or do you want like-minded compatriots to be your friends and bilingual Koreans to help you when you're lost? If you answer yes to the first question, choose the smallest town you can find. If you answer yes to the second question, Seoul, Pusan, and Taegu might be your best bets.

■ what kind of person (ie: personality, qualifications) the schools are looking for

Contributors to this message board have criticized directors for discriminating on trivial points rather than looking for real qualifications, and I think they might be right. They say that Korea is the only Asian country in which a Black person would suffer discrimination.

There is a myth that younger teachers are more entertaining. I'm bald, pudgy, and middle-aged, so I don't get jobs quite as easily as most other teachers.

The scarcity of teachers, however, outweighs all this. I don't think you'll ever see a foreign teacher on a street corner holding a tin cup.

■ tips, advice for those entering Korea as an ESL teacher (e.g.: things that you wish you knew before going there yourself)

I wished I had come better supplied with picture books. Most schools supply little other than textbooks. If you spend the whole hour on the textbook, you'll go crazy and you'll drive the students crazy. Amazon has hundreds of good picture books, but the price almost doubles when you add shipping and handling costs.

I was in Korea for almost a whole year before I learned that there are English bookstores in Korea. The best one I've seen is Kim & Johnson's in Pusan. Take the subway to #18 and take exit #1. It's on the second floor of the building right in front of you.

If you make flash cards and games, they will get covered with fingerprints awfully fast. Photocopying is inexpensive, but laminating is expensive. I've ordered a laminator from the United States.

I hope this helps.