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The Dalai Lama on Homosexuality
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: The Dalai Lama on Homosexuality Reply with quote

http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1997/6/12_2.html

As he prepares to meet today (1997) with gay Buddhist leaders, the Dalai Lama has clarified his position on the morality of homosexuality for Buddhists and non-Buddhists.

Any thoughts?
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Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

typical religious hypocrit!
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Don Gately



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Dalai Lama said the same Buddhist scripture that advises against gay and lesbian sex also urges heterosexuals to refrain from oral sex, anal sex and masturbation. "Even with your own wife, using one's mouth or the other hole is sexual misconduct," he said. "Using one's hand, that is sexual misconduct."


Quote:
The Tibetan leader noted that those same traditional texts that oppose oral and anal sex approve of vaginal sex with a prostitute.


So I can't get head from my wife, but I can go bang some skank on Hooker Hill?

Obviously, I think the Better Half is going to be sorry to hear that.
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Don Gately



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Dalai Lama said the same Buddhist scripture that advises against gay and lesbian sex also urges heterosexuals to refrain from oral sex, anal sex and *beep*.


I would love to know what's wrong with "masturbation" where it needs to be in the swear filter.
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I note further down in the article, it says:

Some Buddhists at yesterday's press conference said the Dalai Lama was
hinting that those traditional Buddhist scriptures may need to be re-examined in a modern social context.

Despite his worldwide appeal and popularity, the Dalai Lama is not a
"Buddhist pope" and does not have the authority to unilaterally change
Buddhist teaching.

"When it comes to interpreting scripture, I can't undertake that on my own," he said. "We would need to have consultation with other Buddhist traditions."


Sounds to me like the Dali Lama is more Reconstructionist than Orthodox. Very Happy
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: The Dalai Lama on Homosexuality Reply with quote

fiveeagles wrote:
http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1997/6/12_2.html


This news is nine years old (from June, 1997), so it's hardly a "Current Event."

Buddhists can disagree with the Dalai Lama in the same way that Christians, including Catholics, can disagree with the Pope.

There is no leader of world Buddhism (nor is it likely that there ever could be one, considering the diversity within Buddhism).

Accidents of fate have made the Dalai Lama the most famous and well-known Buddhist leader in the world, but in actuality, he is only the leader of Tibetan Buddhism.

Quote:
The Dalai Lama said the same Buddhist scripture that advises against gay and lesbian sex also urges heterosexuals to refrain from oral sex, anal sex and m@sturbation. "Even with your own wife, using one's mouth or the other hole is sexual misconduct," he said. "Using one's hand, that is sexual misconduct."

The Tibetan leader noted that those same traditional texts that oppose oral and anal sex approve of vaginal sex with a prostitute.


He's been slammed for those comments, by Buddhists, similar to the way the Pope has, at times, been slammed by Christians.

Gay Buddhists Meet With Dalai Lama - Leader may re-examine doctrine on sex
http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1997/6/12_1.html

Gay Buddhists and human rights activists emerged from a private meeting with the Dalai Lama yesterday and said they were heartened by the Tibetan leader's willingness to re-examine traditional Buddhist teachings on homosexuality.

The meeting at San Francisco's Fairmont Hotel was called in response to gay concerns over the Dalai Lama's recent comments that homosexual relations among Buddhists constitute "sexual misconduct."


The third of Buddhism's Five Precepts is: "I vow to refrain from sexual misconduct."

What constitutes "sexual misconduct" is matter of debate amongst Buddhists. "Sexual misconduct" is any sexual activity that hurts you or another person, so it's pretty well universally-accepted that it includes the following: adultery, sexual harassment, sexual exploitation, rape, and pedophilia. What else it may include is debatable.

Zen Buddhism, for example, tends to take a more tolerant view of homosexuality.

"His Holiness was greatly concerned by reports made available to him
regarding violence and discrimination against gay and lesbian people," said
Dawa Tsering of the Office of Tibet in New York.

"His Holiness opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual
orientation," Tsering said.


I'd like to leave off with a couple of quotes.

"If you find that the teachings suit you, apply them to your life as much as you can.
If they don't suit you, just leave them be."

- The Dalai Lama

"Do not accept anything I say as true simply because I have said it.
Instead, test it as you would gold to see if it is genuine or not.
If, after examining my teachings, you find that they are true, put them into practice.
But do not do so simply out of respect for me."

- The Buddha





Edit:

Apparently, the word "masturbation" is a no-no.


Last edited by Troll_Bait on Sun May 14, 2006 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoS:

If you mean to say that the DL is more liberal or reform-oriented, you might want to avoid using the word "reconstructionist". Within the context of discussing religion, that word is often used to refer to THESE guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
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seoulunitarian



Joined: 06 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:47 am    Post subject: re: Reply with quote

Grotto wrote:
typical religious hypocrit!


There are categories other then hypocrite for those who do not agree with their opposition. Many religious leaders in all faith traditions are very honest and sincere in their interpretations of difficult scriptures. As a gay Christian, I disagree with more conservative interpretations of biblical passages dealing with homosexuality. That doesn't mean either of us are hypocrites.

Peace
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
MoS:

If you mean to say that the DL is more liberal or reform-oriented, you might want to avoid using the word "reconstructionist". Within the context of discussing religion, that word is often used to refer to THESE guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism

I was refering to Reconstructionis Judaism, but thanks for the link, it was interesting, I didn't know anything about Christian Reconstructionism.
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Dalai Lama was just having "one of those days" --- feeling guilty over his own desires. I think the majority of this type of religious hypocricy comes from "guilty"........freud was sometimes right. ...................... The DL wasn't quoting scripture , he was quoting his squeaming heart......

Pity that all religion makes one want to be "clean". As an anthropologist , I am as Levi Strauss, fascinated with how all human culture has the NEED to be clean, devout, abstaining etc......yet also has the desire NOT to be.

I have my own conclusions, they will remain secret. Or as Henry Miller said, " It is not disturbing that roses would grow on this s h i t heap but that man would WANT roses......."

DD

this only shows the dalai lama, like the pope and any imam, is HUMAN. Disturbed and doing the best he can to make it through to a death we know nothing about.....
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't imagine a religous person being a homophobe.. seems to contradict everything I've ever been taught.

well... not really.

i personally find it strange that so many westerners think its different than christianity - same thing in the 'moral' realm.

the call to buddhism isn't all that different than the call to christianity in my mind.. every buddhist-oriented mainstream book i've ever read have all the same moral messages as christianity - just different people writing them.

however, the more 'out-there' books of buddhism, just like christianity, have all kinds of contradictory messages.. but for the most part, they are more or less the same in my mind anyways.
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that the religion of "Buddhism", much like the religion of "Christianity" has gotten far far away from the teaching of it's originator.

That's why I favour the Zen school of Buddhism, as it's much less dogmatic, more of a spiritual practice than a religion as such.
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me why these religious types always have so many issues with other peoples' bodies?
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuckistan wrote:
Can anyone tell me why these religious types always have so many issues with other peoples' bodies?


Quote:
He says it's wrong for Buddhists but not for society


I disagree with him on this one, but please note, he is not saying that others shouldn't do it, just Buddhists.

Buddhists are the ultimate relativists. In some schools in Thailand (a Buddhist society) there are three types of bathrooms- his, hers, and one for those in between. Lady-boys are well accepted there in general (there is some discrimination, but nothing compared to other places) and accepted by their families.
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="desultude"]
canuckistan wrote:


I disagree with him on this one, but please note, he is not saying that others shouldn't do it, just Buddhists.



Why does he make the distinction?
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