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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Deport this illegal migrant!! |
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http://freeandjustice.blogspot.com/2006/05/dutch-minister-of-integration-starting.html
I wonder if all of this forum's hard-nosed anti-Muslim immigration types will be joining in the calls to have THIS woman deported from Holland? Anyone taking odds?
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| Dutch Minister Of Integration Starting Investigation At Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Naturalization Process |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder if all of this forum's hard-nosed anti-Muslim immigration types will be joining in the calls to have THIS woman deported from Holland? |
I think it would be a tragedy if this woman is kicked out of Holland. She is an extremely brave critic of Islam who escaped an arranged marriage in Somalia to live in the West, where she has spoken, with the candour Europeans cannot for fear of being labelled 'racist', about the intolerance and backwardness of Islam. She is an ally of those who oppose the Islamification of Europe, so of course she should not be kicked out.
It now appears there is a witch hunt underway in Holland against her. The European left, which has been cosying itself up to Islam for many years, is clamping down hard on anyone who criticises Islam. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: |
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This comment from the link sums it up for me:
Did she lie about her reasons to come to the Netherlands? Sure she did. She admitted that in 2002 already. Was that 'right'? No of course not. But they left her alone for 4 years, until some communist network made a documentary about her. Now, all of a sudden, it is a huge scandal.
Those people should be ashamed of themselves. Ayaan is one of the most outspoken people we have in the Netherlands. She is continuesly struggling to preserve our freedom of speech. People have threatened her life because of what she said. People continue to threaten her. But she perseveres. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I think it would be a tragedy if this woman is kicked out of Holland. She is an extremely brave critic of Islam who escaped an arranged marriage in Somalia to live in the West, where she has spoken, with the candour Europeans cannot for fear of being labelled 'racist', about the intolerance and backwardness of Islam. She is an ally of those who oppose the Islamification of Europe, so of course she should not be kicked out.
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So you're against illegal immigration, except in cases where the criminal migrant has poltical opinions that you agree with? Kind of an arbitrary way of doing things, ain't it? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| So you're against illegal immigration, except in cases where the criminal migrant has poltical opinions that you agree with? |
On one level yes. It makes little sense to allow into your country thousands of people who despise Western values, of which a significant proportion of Muslim immigrants do. Ayaan Hirsi Ali clearly does not. Moreover, it is obvious her life would be in grave danger if she was deported, as she is an apostate.
However, hers is an exceptional case, and I believe it should be treated on its merits. Yes, she lied to gain entry to the Netherlands, yet she has been a model citizen, and a fierce advocate of free speech and liberal values that many on the left seem to have abadoned. Perhaps that is why they dislike her so much, she shows them up for the weak appeaseniks that they are.
There was a recent case in the UK where the immigration authorities were attempting to deport a Russian girl who had entered the country illegally when she was a child. Yet, through bureaucratic inefficiency, she was never deported and she was allowed to go to school. She eventually went on to Oxford and graduated with a first. Eventually, she was allowed to stay, quite rightly. She had clearly demonstrated that she would be a great asset to the nation, and of course there were no public safety implications (the same cannot be said for countless Muslim immigrants).
I am not in favour of laws being applied rigidly, without the individual merits of a case being taken into account, and on this basis Hirsi Ali should be allowed to stay. There are hundreds of thousands (hijackers amongst them) who should not.
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| Kind of an arbitrary way of doing things, ain't it? |
Indeed it is. Would you have her deported? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Kind of an arbitrary way of doing things, ain't it?
Indeed it is. Would you have her deported? |
I don't know. It would depend on how similar cases are handled in the Netherlands, including cases where the prospective deportee has no significant political views.
If other, less celebrated, immigrants have been deported to dangerous countries four years after their transgressions came to light, then I would have no hesitancy in saying that that is what should be done to Ayaan Hirsi Ali. If, on the other hand, the Netherlands has a policy of overlooking fraudulent paperwork in cases similar to Ms. Hirsi Ali's, then I would say she should get the same leniency.
Probably the preferred solution would be to strip her of her citizenship, and whatever benefits said citizenship confers, so as not to be seen as rewarding fraud. However, she should also be allowed to apply for some sort of refugee status in the Netherlands. Not sure how that would jibe with Dutch law as written.
My main point is that she should get no special treatment simply because of what her political views are. And nor should anyone else. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| My main point is that she should get no special treatment simply because of what her political views are. |
Actually her views should be taken into consideration, just as the views of bearded Western hating clerics should be held against them. Surely, we want people who immigrate to the West to subscribe to our fundamental values, as she does. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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My main point is that she should get no special treatment simply because of what her political views are.
Actually her views should be taken into consideration, just as the views of bearded Western hating clerics should be held against them. Surely, we want people who immigrate to the West to subscribe to our fundamental values, as she does.
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Before they become citizens, yes, you can take their views into consideration. But after they've obtained citizenship, I don't think you can revoke it based on their views.
Now, if their original paperwork wasn't in order to begin with, that's a different story. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| But after they've obtained citizenship, I don't think you can revoke it based on their views. |
You can, if they are involved in seditious or inciteful behaviour, and if they represent a danger to public security. Personally, I think common sense should prevail and her citizenship should not be revoked. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm rooting for the home team.
Go West!
I'm willing to draw a line in the sand. She assimilated, very obviously so too.
Had she not, back to the stone age she would go!
I feel no shame in wanting to keep the West free of people who have no intention of sharing our traditions. She participates. Good enough for me.
Call me a hypocrite! I'd rather be a hypocrite with a sane culture than be consistent and having to accommodate to Islam (the Christians are bad enough!) |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm rooting for the home team.
Go West!
I'm willing to draw a line in the sand. She assimilated, very obviously so too.
Had she not, back to the stone age she would go!
I feel no shame in wanting to keep the West free of people who have no intention of sharing our traditions. She participates. Good enough for me.
Call me a hypocrite! I'd rather be a hypocrite with a sane culture than be consistent and having to accommodate to Islam (the Christians are bad enough!) |
Sorry, but I think that citizenship, properly obtained, is pretty much non-negotiable. What you guys are advocating would leave the concept of citizenship vulnerable to the passing whims of whatever political grouping happens to come into power. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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As I understand it, her citizenship wasn't properly obtained, and this is the problem. She lied on her refugee application form. I believe (but am not a Dutch refugee lawyer) that this affects her citizenship status.
Had Mohammad Al I hate Jews lied and there was an opportunity to kick his PJ's wearing arse back to wherever, I would jump at the possibility.
But, this lady is, in every way, assimilated to the Western way of life. She should stay. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: |
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It looks like this discussion might be somewhat moot.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Dutch parliamentarian who became the target of radical Islamists for writing an Islam-critical screenplay, is planning to resign from her elected office and leave the Netherlands for the United States.
According to information obtained by SPIEGEL ONLINE, Hirsi Ali will make a public statement announcing her resignation on Tuesday. The move allegedly comes as a result of disillusionment caused by recent reports taking a critical look at her original entry into Holland in 1992. A television report aired last Thursday claimed that Hirsi Ali only received political asylum in the Netherlands because of false statements she made in her application.
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Let's hope she doesn't fudge on the immigration papers this time!
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416299,00.html |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sure she will be a great asset to America, where freedom of speech is more highly valued than in Europe, where it is under increasing attack from the PC ideologues of the left. |
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