Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ED209]

Hello Tomato

We're both kinda right.

Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by Discipline

[Rteacher]

If God does exist, the onus is on you (and all of us) to follow His laws - and all nations are under God whether they acknowledge it or not.

Here's some background information about the adding of "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance:

The Knights of Columbus in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity. Appealing to the authority of Abraham Lincoln, the Knights felt that the words "under God" which were from Lincoln�s Gettysburg Address were most appropriate to add to the Pledge. In New York City on April 22, 1951, the Board of Directors of the Knights of Columbus adopted a resolution to amend their recitation of Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of each of the meetings of the 800 Fourth Degree Assemblies of the Knights of Columbus by addition of the words "under God" after the words "one nation." In the following two years, the idea spread throughout Knights of Columbus organizations nationwide... On August 21, 1952, the Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus at its annual meeting adopted a resolution urging that the change be made universal and copies of this resolution were sent to the President, the Vice President (as Presiding Officer of the Senate) and the Speaker of the House of Representatives...

Bills to get the government to amend the pledge stalled for a couple years until a Presbyterian minister from Scotland, Rev. George MacPherson Doherty, gave a sermon that he knew would be attended by President Eisenhower.

Docherty�s message began with a comparison of the United States to ancient Sparta. Docherty noted that a traveler to ancient Sparta was amazed by the fact that the Spartans� national might was not to be found in their walls, their shields, or their weapons, but in their spirit. Likewise, said Docherty, the might of the United States should not be thought of as emanating from their newly developed Atomic weapons, but in their spirit, the "American way of life". In the remainder of the sermon Docherty sought to define as succinctly as possible the essence of the American spirit and way of life. To do so, Docherty appealed to those two words in Lincoln�s Gettysburg Address. According to Docherty, what has made the United States both unique and strong was her sense of being the nation that Lincoln described: a nation "under God."

Paraphrasing Docherty�s sermon, Eisenhower said

These words [�under God�] will remind Americans that despite our great physical strength we must remain humble. They will help us to keep constantly in our minds and hearts the spiritual and moral principles which alone give dignity to man, and upon which our way of life is founded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

During the Cold War, Eisenhower's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles regularly condemned "atheistic" Communism.

[Rteacher]

I might as well tack this on here (to help remedy the problems attendant with both atheism and agnosticism...)

National Public Radio (NPR) just did a show on the beliefs and lifestyle of Hare Krishna monks (which I was for a long time - and pretty much still am - though I've been independent from the organization for over ten years...)
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90639998

[Justin Hale]

[Rteacher]

I agree that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic conceptions of God are not very appealing - but those are just misconceptions (utilized largely for social control purposes). They lack information of the qualities that make the Supreme Person the most completely attractive to all living beings.

I think it's also a philosophical misconception that the completely perfect source of everything - including all personalities - would lack personality.

The external, impersonal aspect of God is a type of spiritual realization available to material scientists and speculators, but the highest personal stage is realized only by pure devotional service (beginning with hearing and chanting transcendental Holy Names)

[Omkara]

Supreme personality. . .follow that concept and find the contradictions. All things that can possibly be attributed to personality are a consequence of mortality.

Show me even one attribute of personality which is not connected with death, and I'll respect the concept.

I bet you pass this one over.

As for the scientists believing in god, I suppose it matters which science they practice and what they mean by that ever-so-flexible word: God.

[Rteacher]

Basically, the more that consciousness is developed, the more personality is exhibited - even in animals (eg: a dog has more personality than a worm.) Since God is unlimitedly conscious, He possesses all personal qualities to an unlimited degree.

This excerpt is from a very comprehensive article titled "Who is Sri Krishna?" and quotes Rupa Goswami, who was personally instructed in the science of God realization by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - Krishna Himself appearing as a devotee:

Many of the Gosvamis of Vrindavana who had personally realized the attractive features of the Supreme wrote many books about the transcendental personality of God. One of the greatest of these saints was Rupa Gosvami (1489-1564 A.D.) who wrote a list of Krishna�s characteristics in his book, Bhakti rasamrita-sindhu. This list describes 64 different qualities of God that are mentioned in the Vedic literature. This again confirms that the Lord is not merely an impersonal force, but a person who interacts in every way with the creation and the living entities that are within the creation that manifests from Him.

The list includes the following qualities: 1) beautiful features of the entire body; 2) marked with all auspicious characteristics; 3) extremely pleasing; 4) effulgent; 5) strong; 6) ever youthful; 7) wonderful linguist; truthful; 9) talks pleasingly; 10) fluent; 11) highly learned; 12) highly intelligent; 13) a genius; 14) artistic; 15) extremely clever; 16) expert; 17) grateful; 1 firmly determined; 19) an expert judge of time and circumstances; 20) sees and speaks on the authority of the scriptures--the Veda; 21) pure; 22) self-controlled; 23) steadfast; 24) forbearing; 25) forgiving; 26) grave; 27) self-satisfied; 2 possessing equilibrium; 29) magnanimous; 30) religious; 31) heroic; 32) compassionate; 33) respectful; 34) gentle; 35) liberal; 36) shy; 37) protector of surrendered souls; 3 happy; 39) well-wisher of devotees; 40) controlled by love; 41) all-auspicious; 42) most powerful; 43) all-famous; 44) popular; 45) partial to devotees; 46) very attractive to all women; 47) all-worshipable; 4 all-opulent; 49) all-honorable; and 50) the Supreme controller.

These fifty qualities, however, may also be found in varying degrees in some of the jivas or common living entities in this universe. But they are found in Lord Krishna to an unlimited degree. But besides these 50 qualities, there are five more which may also be manifested at times in the forms of Lord Brahma and Shiva. These are: 51) changeless; 52) all-cognizant; 53) ever-fresh; 54) sat-cid-ananda-vigraha--possessing a transcendental form of eternity, full of knowledge and absolute bliss; and 55) possessing all mystic perfection.

Beyond the above mentioned qualities, which may be seen in other forms of Divinity such as the demigods, Lord Krishna has the following exceptional qualities which are also manifested in the form of Narayana or Vishnu, His form as the Lord of Vaikuntha. These are: 56) inconceivable potency; 57) uncountable universes are generated from His body; 5 the original source of all incarnations; 59) the giver of salvation to the enemies He kills; and 60) the attractor of liberated souls.

Besides the above-mentioned traits, Lord Krishna has four more qualities that are found only in Him, and not even in His forms of Vishnu, not to mention any of the demigods. These are: 61) the performer of wonderful pastimes (especially his childhood pastimes); 62) surrounded by devotees endowed with unsurpassed love of Godhead; 63) the attractor of all living entities in all universes through the expert playing of His flute; and 64) possessor of unexcelled beauty without rival. All of these qualities are those of someone who has a highly developed form and personality.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/sri_krishna.htm

The question is answered from another angle - along with a definition of God - in this article:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-10505.html

[merkurix]

[quote="Justin Hale"]

[Underwaterbob]

[Omkara]

[Kuros]

[Omkara]

It is rooted then in vulnerability and impotence? Then an omnipotent god is a compensation and reveals more about our psychology than any ontological reality?

[Kuros]

[Rteacher]

God is forgiving (#25)

[Underwaterbob]

Wouldn't the idea of karma be contradictory to forgiveness? Everything good is paid for in equal amounts of bad. In order to reward the good you have to punish the bad, not forgive them.