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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| You're just talking austerity. It won't fix the economy, it'll just destroy what's left of the middle class. The real problem here is not Americans living beyond their means; it's the government wasting trillions and handing trillions more over to the blood suckers on Wall Street. Want to save the middle class? Let the mega-banks collapse next time, wipe out all their made-up ponzi scheme derivatives debt, and put their assets on the chopping block to be sold off at rock bottom prices. It would be the greatest jubilee the world has ever seen. |
and the money the middle class has saved? What would happen to it then? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| You're just talking austerity. It won't fix the economy, it'll just destroy what's left of the middle class. The real problem here is not Americans living beyond their means; it's the government wasting trillions and handing trillions more over to the blood suckers on Wall Street. Want to save the middle class? Let the mega-banks collapse next time, wipe out all their made-up ponzi scheme derivatives debt, and put their assets on the chopping block to be sold off at rock bottom prices. It would be the greatest jubilee the world has ever seen. |
and the money the middle class has saved? What would happen to it then? |
In the event of bank failure, government deposit insurance would kick in, wouldn't it? It's entirely possible as far as I can see to let banks crash while isolating the middle and lower classes from losing the savings they themselves have accrued. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| FDIC guarantees monies up to $250,000. Unfortunately, this solution is very much a part of the problem, since banking is all but risk-free. By being virtually risk-free, banks can accumulate such vast sums of capital so as to become Too Big to Fail. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:51 am Post subject: |
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There is one financial instutition that has a great track record, runs very efficiently has been very good for the average American and that are the credit unions. Unfortunately, banks have been trying to kill them off via legislation and regulations for years.
Although banks have an almost complete monopoly on banking, they want it all.
I'm all for letting banks fail. Its a bit hypocritical by many on the right who have a problem with social welfare but are willing to offer what can not be defined as anything else as welfare for failing banks but called bailouts.
I'm no economist but I don't believe the doom and gloomers who say if we don't bail them out, we all go down. The Fed and Treasury big wigs come from the same banking industry that want the bailouts and they are going to work for the same banking interests after they leave public service. The congressmen in charge of the banking committees get their campaign contribution from the same banks. So, why should i believe the fed and the congress when they are bought and paid for by the same people they are bailing out.
The folks who aren't bought off by them are saying to let them fail. I'll go with the ones who aren't bought off. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| As far as raising taxes. I've never said I was against the idea, I just don't believe in raising them UNTIL we cut out the waste first. Cut as much waste as we can then if there is a need raise taxes. There are also non taxable ways to raise revenue without raising taxes. A national lottery as I wrote in a previous post. After all these other things are exhausted, then raise taxes. But raising it ad hoc while there are hundreds of billions being wasted makes absolutely no logical sense to me. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I've grown weary of the Tea Party. They collectively only care about one thing: keeping revenue static. They have become an obstacle to good governance. Every non-partisan public budget agency says there is only one solution: cut spending and raise taxes.
Boehner: Back to Biden, Please
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Obama offered a grand deal -- huge cuts across the board, including substantial rollbacks of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security benefits -- but including the suspension of economically distorting tax benefits for the rich and highly profitable firms, particularly ethanol and oil, that were gorging themselves on public dollars.
. . .
Republicans have set the terms of debate, forced the Democrats to promise a sacrifice of holy commitments to their base, and would have been able to steal back the mantle of "fiscal conservatism" after Bill Clinton became the balanced budget guy and George W. Bush blew the hole out of the economy's bottom.
Now, John Boehner is showing that he is trapped in an ideological bind with his own constituents and that Obama is too overwhelming for him. The big deal won't work, Boehner says, because Boehner can't get his caucus to do the deal of the era because it involves minor revenue increases. They'd rather default on the national debt and undermine global trust in the United States as a political stunt.
Boehner has now rejected the course of negotiations with the President and wants Biden back and the smaller scale, more pragmatic plan that Joe Biden had been working on with leaders of both parties before Eric Cantor decided to capsize the effort. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Its all BS. The goal isn't to adhere to some ideological belief, the goal is to make Obama and by extension the Dems weak for the election.
Its all about raw naked power. Republicans have proven that if they are in power they will violate their own ideology. Dems have done it as well.
Both parties are loyal to their own power and greed, nothing more. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Tax increases with spending cuts
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President Barack Obama will propose a new higher tax rate for millionaires, the White House confirmed Saturday, giving his deficit-cutting proposal a populist sheen that will invigorate the Democratic base but draw swift opposition from Republicans.
He will call it the Buffett Rule . . .
Obama will include the tax in a new proposal that he�s set to release Monday at the White House, his latest effort to guide Congress toward a plan that lowers the debt by $1.9 trillion through both spending cuts and new tax revenue.
The proposal is expected to include hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and defense programs, as well as a call on Congress to overhaul the Tax Code.
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Raise US Taxes |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Welcome to the Raise US Taxes thread. There are many reasons to raise taxes, the most important of which: the US gov't owes a lot of money on debt. This much money.
Here we'll aggregate articles about (1) different ways to raise taxes and (2) reasons why we should raise taxes. |
You do realize that you can write the IRS a check at any time, right? We do not need increased taxes in this Obama depression. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Raise US Taxes |
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| lithium wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Welcome to the Raise US Taxes thread. There are many reasons to raise taxes, the most important of which: the US gov't owes a lot of money on debt. This much money.
Here we'll aggregate articles about (1) different ways to raise taxes and (2) reasons why we should raise taxes. |
You do realize that you can write the IRS a check at any time, right? We do not need increased taxes in this Obama depression. |
Taxes solve a collective action problem. Warren Buffett can give all his money to the IRS tomorrow, but it will hardly put a dent in the debt because he would be the only one doing it. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Good news! We solved the entire debt problem! Oops, but we secretly gave it to the wrong people...
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The national debt is under $15 trillion.
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3
The Federal Reserve secretly printed and gave away $16 trillion to international banks in 2008 (in addition to QE1 and QE2). We could have paid off the entire national debt with that! Or we could have given $50,000 to every man, woman and child in the United States!
I'm starting to think that the arguing over who is or isn't paying their share of taxes may be missing the -real- source of our money problems... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
Good news! We solved the entire debt problem! Oops, but we secretly gave it to the wrong people...
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The national debt is under $15 trillion.
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3
The Federal Reserve secretly printed and gave away $16 trillion to international banks in 2008 (in addition to QE1 and QE2). We could have paid off the entire national debt with that! Or we could have given $50,000 to every man, woman and child in the United States!
I'm starting to think that the arguing over who is or isn't paying their share of taxes may be missing the -real- source of our money problems... |
But comm . . . the country made a profit on the bank bailouts, right? |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
But comm . . . the country made a profit on the bank bailouts, right? |
You mean the $700 billion TARP program?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program
Hopefully the Treasury ended up in the positive for that. But I'm afraid to say our National-Debt-sized secret handouts earned nothing for the taxpayer.
I don't understand why the GAO report linked on Senator Sanders' website isn't the story of the decade. The amount of money printed is equal to $150,000 for every family in America... how can we talk about taxes when the Federal Reserve can do that in secret? |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| That being said, I will repeat: how do you think you can make the government less wasteful? |
How about start by cutting out $16 muffins? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Looking at page 4 on the GAO .pdf provided in comm's Bernie Sanders link, we can see there are still over $1 trillion outstanding on those loans. Most significantly, $909 billion from the Agency MBS Securities Program from Nov. 25th, 2008, but also $22 billion from Maiden Lane, the operation from the same year funding Morgan Chase's takeover of Bear Stearns. |
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