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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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 Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Newton had some very good players around him at Auburn. At Florida he got busted for grand theft. Immature and not really a leader. At Auburn he really stepped up and Gus Malzahn helped him a lot. Just really do not see how anyone could have been better in the Florida offense than Tebow. I mean unstoppable there is no such thing as more unstoppable. Bama did bring Tebow down to earth but the Alabama defense that year was of of the best in college football history and Saban out coached Myer.
Once the Pats got the Broncs down they put Tebow in a position that limited what he could do. Good strategy and the Patriots are a great team. |
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xhaktmtjdnf
Joined: 20 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Tebow is about the kind of quarterback most analysis imagined him to be. In that he has strong intangibles, but his accuracy and throwing motion well fine for college ball are not up to NFL levels. Well Tebow's success is no accident neither are his failures. Denver has to have a strong defense and run game, because unless your playing Pittsburgh and don't have anyone down field Tebow is going to be too ineffective throwing the ball to put up big numbers on offense. He was great in Denver and pretty bad in New England. Denver needs to play from ahead and keep the game low scoring then they can run the ball and mix in the occasional long bomb like the did in Pittsburgh. I think Tebow is a great back-up QB and an okay starter. It'll be interested to see what he does next year as the starter with a full training camp under him. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
Newton had some very good players around him at Auburn. At Florida he got busted for grand theft. Immature and not really a leader. At Auburn he really stepped up and Gus Malzahn helped him a lot. Just really do not see how anyone could have been better in the Florida offense than Tebow. I mean unstoppable there is no such thing as more unstoppable. Bama did bring Tebow down to earth but the Alabama defense that year was of of the best in college football history and Saban out coached Myer.
Once the Pats got the Broncs down they put Tebow in a position that limited what he could do. Good strategy and the Patriots are a great team. |
I didn't know about the grand theft thing, but I guess that's plausible. I still think Tebow had more weapons (Percy Harvin, for one) than Newton ever did. And I still think Florida essentially out-athleted most of their competition, which came to a crushing halt once the Saban recruiting machine got rolling at Alabama and Florida finally lined up with a team as athletic (and better coached) than they were.
However, Newton is an out-of-this-world athlete, and he also happens to possess pretty good QB skills. He may not have had a better 4 year run in college than Tebow, but if the stars had aligned and he'd actually played 4 years, at say, Florida, I think his numbers would have been comparable if not better.
I agree your assessment of Tebow as a pro. Unless he improves his passing game, he's going to be relegated to backup duties no matter how good his "leadership" is. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Michael Vick was a better QB than BOTH of them in college.
"Vick led the NCAA in passing efficiency that year, setting a record for a freshman (180.4), which was good enough for the third-highest all-time mark. Vick was awarded an ESPY Award as the nation's top college player and won the first-ever Archie Griffin Award as college football's most valuable player. He was invited to the 1999 Heisman Trophy presentation and finished third in the voting behind Ron Dayne and Joe Hamilton. Vick's third place finish matched the highest finish ever by a freshman up to that point, first set by Herschel Walker in 1980."
That is as a FRESHMEN. He only played til his sophmore year. Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Michael Vick was a better QB than BOTH of them in college.
"Vick led the NCAA in passing efficiency that year, setting a record for a freshman (180.4), which was good enough for the third-highest all-time mark. Vick was awarded an ESPY Award as the nation's top college player and won the first-ever Archie Griffin Award as college football's most valuable player. He was invited to the 1999 Heisman Trophy presentation and finished third in the voting behind Ron Dayne and Joe Hamilton. Vick's third place finish matched the highest finish ever by a freshman up to that point, first set by Herschel Walker in 1980."
That is as a FRESHMEN. He only played til his sophmore year. Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young. |
Cam Newton posted a higher pass efficiency his senior season. And Vick posted a much lower pass efficiency his sophomore season, so it's hard to say whether his numbers as a junior or senior would have been better. |
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detonate
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Tebow played the 2nd half with an injury that is keeping an NBA player out 3-4 weeks.
(On my way to 25 posts for PMing...) |
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Jyang486
Joined: 25 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| I have beef with Vick. Vtech was one of my safety schools when applying for colleges during my senior year in high school. But that same year Vick took the little known school at the time to the national championship game and the gpa average of students applying jumped almost a full point, rejecting my application. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| Tebow was not playing defense. Not that it would have mattered even God couldn't stop Tom Brady when he is having an "on" day. |
9-26 for 136 yards. Didn't look like he was playing offense either. |
In college games I always felt Tebow was getting too much credit and the other Gators weren't getting enough. Quarterbacks usually get too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things bo badly. Tim Tebow is a classic example. So was Gino Toretta of the Hurricanes. Look at the New England game. Brandon Spikes sacked Tebow and Aaron Hernandez had almost as many yards and more touchdowns from the TE position as Tebow did at QB. Those two Gators never got as much credit as they deserved as college athletes and even now that they helped blow out the Broncos, nobody wants to talk about them. It's still all about Tebow.
Before the New England game, everyone was talking about Tebow with his three 200+ yard games instead of Brady with his three Super Bowl victories. Even at halftime, Brady had five TD passes and Tebow had three pass completions total, but everyone was still talking about Tebow. After Brady tied the NFL playoff record for the most touchdown passes in a playoff game, everyone was still talking about Tebow even though Tebow hadn't tied anything during the game except for maybe his shoes.
Dick Enberg's non-stop praise of John Elway got old, but at least Elway was truly a great Broncos quarterback. Tebow is not. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young. |
Dual threat quarterbacks were popular before Michael Vick played ball.
The year before Michael Vick's 1999 season, Tennessee won the national championship with a dual threat quarterback, something it was unable to do with its previous quarterback, pocket passer Peyton Manning. But Tennessee almost lost its first game of 1998 season to a Syracuse team with a very good dual threat quarterback of its own -- Donovan McNabb. The next weekend, McNabb and the rest of the Syracuse team demolished the defending national champs, a Tom Brady led Michigan team, at Michigan's Big House, with Syracuse leading 38-7 in the fourth quarter when it put its scrubs into the game.
Before those guys, another guy who was offered a scholarship at Florida (to play at DB) deserves mention. The late Steve McNair was third in the Heisman voting in 1994 despite playing for a Division I-AA team and had a good career in the NFL.
And before him, there was Charlie Ward who won the 1993 Heisman Trophy and led Florida State to the national championship that year.
Before Ward, there were guys like Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, and several others I'm overlooking.
Vick wasn't an original and didn't pave the way for guys like Newton, Tebow, and Vince Young. That road was well traveled before and after Michael Vick's 1999 football season. |
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detonate
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young. |
The year before Michael Vick's 1999 season, Tennessee won the national championship with a dual threat quarterback, something it was unable to do with its previous quarterback, pocket passer Peyton Manning. |
If Tee Martin can be called a dual threat QB then he was one of the worst that year in D1. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Before Ward, there were guys like Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, and several others I'm overlooking.
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Don't forget Fran Tarkenton! He was the first scrambling QB in the NFL and is 4th all time in rushing yards amongst QBs (Young, Cunningham, and Vick being the only ones ahead of him). |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| detonate wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young. |
The year before Michael Vick's 1999 season, Tennessee won the national championship with a dual threat quarterback, something it was unable to do with its previous quarterback, pocket passer Peyton Manning. |
If Tee Martin can be called a dual threat QB then he was one of the worst that year in D1. |
Tee Martin can't hear you over the sound of his national title and undefeated record in 1998. His stats that year are very good.
In 1999 he was only so so |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tee Martin never frightened anyone with his running. Accurate passer a smart quarterback , he did throw a great long ball was the perfect quarterback for that team. Remember Tebow never really had a great running back to work with. But Tebow haters do not care, they never look at the stats or titles. It is amazing that even when he has a good game and his team wins it is always the coaching or the weather or the other team did not eat breakfast it is never Tebow, So continue the hating. |
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detonate
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| detonate wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Without Vick you wouldn't have a Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young. |
The year before Michael Vick's 1999 season, Tennessee won the national championship with a dual threat quarterback, something it was unable to do with its previous quarterback, pocket passer Peyton Manning. |
If Tee Martin can be called a dual threat QB then he was one of the worst that year in D1. |
Tee Martin can't hear you over the sound of his national title and undefeated record in 1998. His stats that year are very good.
In 1999 he was only so so |
Decent reading comprehension on even an ESL forum might be too much to ask...  티처 투대이 미 이즈 배리 소소 |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Tee Martin never frightened anyone with his running. Accurate passer a smart quarterback , he did throw a great long ball was the perfect quarterback for that team. Remember Tebow never really had a great running back to work with. But Tebow haters do not care, they never look at the stats or titles. It is amazing that even when he has a good game and his team wins it is always the coaching or the weather or the other team did not eat breakfast it is never Tebow, So continue the hating. |
He ran for 287 yards one year and 300+ yards the next with 7 and 9 tds rushing. He might not be Micheal Vick but his running was pretty good.
Tebow haters never look at the stats??? His NFL stats suck! He had a nice NCAA career but if you want to bring up stats with the kid now, you are fighting a losing battle. |
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