|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
If I was on the subway with a beer, it would be something more worthwhile than a Cass. Probably a Suntory. |
Thank goodness. Figured you for a Cass guy.
But an apologist with a Japanese beer? Noooo! There could be some hope for you yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LOL! Now he's osting links about e-book sales is evidence that a fair amount of people are reading them on smartphones? Keep the bullsh1t coming, SR. You'll be king of your own mountain very soon.
Yes, ebooks are so popular on smartphones that these reports fail to mention them.
http://www.advancedtechnologykorea.com/8039/
http://www.businessinsider.com/ultra-wired-south-korea-is-battling-smartphone-addiction-2013-6
http://www.statista.com/statistics/275301/distribution-of-time-spent-ios-and-android-apps-in-south-korea/
http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Sci-Tech/view?articleId=102433
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/01/31/south-koreans-flex-smartphone-muscles/
http://econsultancy.com/blog/62218-68-of-people-use-their-smartphone-for-email-26-for-shopping
http://www.dawn.com/news/750293/smartphones-apps-all-the-rage-in-asias-mobile-market
And for the final nails in your argument's coffin, jump down to pages 4 and 7 in this link:
http://blog.flurry.com/Portals/41620/docs/Flurry%20Insights%20Korea%20Report%20Oct13%20vF.pdf
4% of all mobile content downloads (not just smartphones) is e-book content. Note: this means content, not the reader apps, and this includes tablets, and pablets. That would make the specific smartphone e-book reader amount to far less than 4% considering one person is not just downloading one book.
Oh, and thanks for fulfilling my prediction about the freshmen. We all know if the survey result s were different, you'd be singing a different tune.
Last edited by crescent on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Your conclusion--I'm got a Kindle app, thus everyone else who has a smartphone is Korea does |
That was not my conclusion, I'm sorry you are so poor at reading comprehension as to understand that. My point was that people can and do use smartphones to read ebooks. Nowhere did I say "everyone else who has a smartphone in Korea does".
| Quote: |
I can cite an exercise on tech we have in our freshman textbook on smartphone use. The students were asked to check one or more possible uses in a survey, one of which was reading e-books.
Out of 250 students, in each of 2 semesters last year, guess what the tally was for reading ebooks?
If the number was high, SR would admit it as a concrete statistic. But unfortunately the tally was zero. |
http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2012/korean-e-book-market-to-boom-google-thinks-so/
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130424000413
http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2011/0706/In-South-Korea-all-textbooks-will-be-e-books-by-2015
http://www.mhpbooks.com/south-korean-bookseller-sets-new-standard-for-rock-bottom-ebook-prices/
So, should we trust print journalism or atwood's powers of observation via glances on the subway?
I'd also submit that incoming freshmen are some of the least likely to have ebooks as still many high schoolers do not have smartphones and are thus unfamiliar with their capabilities.
| Quote: |
Which is more plausible:
A) That Koreans don't read on their smartphones in any numbers as to be meaningful OR
B) That you lack sufficient information to arrive at your conclusions?
|
So in other words, journalism is crap and atwood somehow has mystic powers to determine such things with split-second glances at a near 100% clip.
Right.
| Quote: |
| A kyopo on the subway with a Cass in one hand and a Kindle in the other, screaming at random foreigners: "Hey! It's a Kindle! See? I read! Stop staring at me!" |
If I was on the subway with a beer, it would be something more worthwhile than a Cass. Probably a Suntory. |
You're the one who can't read dude.
| Quote: |
| “The situation for the publishing market is now at its worst.” |
So e-books are 10% of sales, expected to grow to 20 % in 2013--maybe they did, maybe they did not but with only 20% of books published in Korea also being made available as e-books they'd better all be bestsellers--of a terrible publishing market means the majority of smartphone users on public transportation are reading e-books.
I think not.
And yes you did make the above assumption, but now that you've been called on it you've finally gotten around to looking into the subject. The problem is the facts don't support your assumptions.
You need to look up Deputy Barney Fife and learn what happens when you assume.
And why oh why oh why does this site not have an ignore function? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
If I was on the subway with a beer, it would be something more worthwhile than a Cass. Probably a Suntory. |
Thank goodness. Figured you for a Cass guy.
But an apologist with a Japanese beer? Noooo! There could be some hope for you yet. |
Crap, my cover is blown. AES is going to be knocking on my door any minute.
And of all the insults I have had lobbed at me, none was worse than "figured you for a Cass guy". Dear sir, please. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
First off, many of your articles have a tenuous link at best to smartphone use and are in no way conclusive in determining smartphone use if you actually examine the data.
For example, your first source lists app uses. All the uses listed are over 50% of respondents. However a data list with only responses over 50% in no way confirms the assertion that a statistically negligible amount of Korean smartphone users are using ebooks. This is basic statistical analysis.
The second article fails to address how Koreans use their smartphones so it is irrelevant to the issue.
The third article includes the categories "entertainment", and "other" which could very well include ebooks. Again, nothing conclusive.
The fourth article is simply about the number of smartphone users, not about how they use their smartphones. It doesn't prove or supply any data asserting your hypothesis that most Koreans aren't using it for reading.
Same with the fifth article.
The next article didn't mention ebook use so there is no way to verify it one way or the other.
The last article just stated how popular smartphones were Asia.
This is the equivalent of you finding 10 random articles about medicine in the United States and concluding that the US does no research of AIDS simply because none of the articles mention AIDS. This wouldn't pass muster in my middle school back in the States.
| Quote: |
And for the final nails in your argument's coffin, jump down to pages 4 and 7 in this link:
http://blog.flurry.com/Portals/41620/docs/Flurry%20Insights%20Korea%20Report%20Oct13%20vF.pdf
4% of all mobile content downloads (not just smartphones) is e-book content. Note: this means content, not the reader apps, and this includes tablets, and pablets. That would make the specific smartphone e-book reader amount to far less than 4% considering one person is not just downloading one book. |
Not all data content is equal. A book is relatively low in bytes and relatively long in the time spent to use it. Furthermore, many journalism sources have free web content driven by advertising. There is also usage. A person might have a book that they kill some pages on during their regular commutes that they turn to from time to time over the course of a couple weeks or a month. At home they might favor physical books. And again, they might be reading journalism sources that were previously physical subscriptions.
You are drawing overly simplistic conclusions from your data without critically analyzing them.
| Quote: |
| So e-books are 10% of sales, expected to grow to 20 % in 2013--maybe they did, maybe they did not but with only 20% of books published in Korea also being made available as e-books they'd better all be bestsellers--of a terrible publishing market means the majority of smartphone users on public transportation are reading e-books. |
That's still hundreds of thousands or millions of readers. Certainly enough to contradict your claims.
Sorry, your powers of observation and your ability to analyze data is not as strong as you think they are. You aren't engaged in true observation and analysis, instead you are declaring your assumptions correct and refusing to acknowledge any other possible outcomes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LOL! Simplistic conclusions. You mean like these ones?
"I read books on my smartphone so a substantial number of Koreans must be reading ebooks on their phones too."
"College students are not likely to read ebooks"
| but real statistics wrote: |
| Purchase rates in South Korea and Japan highest among 18-24 year olds. |
http://www.i-programmer.info/news/152-epub/4064-e-book-trends-revealed.html
"To you I look Korean, but to Koreans I look foreign."
"Overseas Koreans make their food from scratch.... um, wait, er, no.....thhhhhey shop at Korean marts, yeah...and if they can't find it they ship it in."
You know perfectly well that the observations of the four of us on this thread (or five now, counting my wife, who thinks you are full of it), plus that last link is indeed sufficient evidence that Koreans are not reading ebooks on their smartphones in substantial numbers. The purpose of the first series of links was to show that ebooks are not significant enough to be mentioned at all. Surely, if Koreans were reading them in considerable numbers, there would be at least some mention of ebooks in at least one article about cellphone use. It may very well be that Koreans are using more and more e-books, but they are surely not reading them on their SMARTPHONES. Your ridiculous AIDS analogy is nothing more than additional proof that you are completely inept at analogies. You must be running low on synapses if you think Ebook use in articles about cellphone use is analogous to AIDS research in articles about medicine. Think about that one a bit more there, Copernicus. The only thing you have that is analogous is your head and your ass.
And in the last link, The Flurry report didn't calculate bytes in their data on p.7, it tallied physical downloads. Read the title. All your BS regarding physical books just serves as a smokescreen that actually works more toward proving my own point. Man, you are one thick, thick sod.
Here's another study to show your sales stats are inflated:
| Quote: |
The ebook market in Korea, one of the most wired countries in the world, still proves to be slow regarding retail sales....
...The rationale why the publishers have less interest in ebook system is because the the concrete market of ebooks and the readers' purchasing power were not sufficiently assessed to expect profitability.... The average sales of ebooks in total in 2011 reached 12,830,000won, which remained slow. Yet, children's books contributed appeared to contribute to the sale. In Korea, the children's book market comprises of a larger proportion of the publishing industry..... this indifference is attributed to readers' hesitating to buy ebooks.... |
http://onlinepresent.org/proceedings/vol26_2013/24.pdf
If you do not wish to accept the total corroboration of all this evidence, then that's your choice. That's 5 people, one of whom is Korean, plus a series of articles about smartphone use with no mention of ebooks, plus a survey, plus a downloads report. Simplistic conclusion, eh?
Right then. Go right ahead and bolster your resume for being stubbornly obtuse. You've said things so stupid in so many other threads, and when called on them, you just scamper off quietly to tighten your tenacious hold on threads like these where you can resort to twisting things and denying things and refusing to believe someone else's observations while putting forth your own as irrefutable.
So, yes... don't stop now SR. You've come too far. You don't have to see what's right there in front of you even if everyone else does. It's what makes you 'special'.
Last edited by crescent on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:43 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
First off, many of your articles have a tenuous link at best to smartphone use and are in no way conclusive in determining smartphone use if you actually examine the data.
For example, your first source lists app uses. All the uses listed are over 50% of respondents. However a data list with only responses over 50% in no way confirms the assertion that a statistically negligible amount of Korean smartphone users are using ebooks. This is basic statistical analysis.
The second article fails to address how Koreans use their smartphones so it is irrelevant to the issue.
The third article includes the categories "entertainment", and "other" which could very well include ebooks. Again, nothing conclusive.
The fourth article is simply about the number of smartphone users, not about how they use their smartphones. It doesn't prove or supply any data asserting your hypothesis that most Koreans aren't using it for reading.
Same with the fifth article.
The next article didn't mention ebook use so there is no way to verify it one way or the other.
The last article just stated how popular smartphones were Asia.
This is the equivalent of you finding 10 random articles about medicine in the United States and concluding that the US does no research of AIDS simply because none of the articles mention AIDS. This wouldn't pass muster in my middle school back in the States.
| Quote: |
And for the final nails in your argument's coffin, jump down to pages 4 and 7 in this link:
http://blog.flurry.com/Portals/41620/docs/Flurry%20Insights%20Korea%20Report%20Oct13%20vF.pdf
4% of all mobile content downloads (not just smartphones) is e-book content. Note: this means content, not the reader apps, and this includes tablets, and pablets. That would make the specific smartphone e-book reader amount to far less than 4% considering one person is not just downloading one book. |
Not all data content is equal. A book is relatively low in bytes and relatively long in the time spent to use it. Furthermore, many journalism sources have free web content driven by advertising. There is also usage. A person might have a book that they kill some pages on during their regular commutes that they turn to from time to time over the course of a couple weeks or a month. At home they might favor physical books. And again, they might be reading journalism sources that were previously physical subscriptions.
You are drawing overly simplistic conclusions from your data without critically analyzing them.
| Quote: |
| So e-books are 10% of sales, expected to grow to 20 % in 2013--maybe they did, maybe they did not but with only 20% of books published in Korea also being made available as e-books they'd better all be bestsellers--of a terrible publishing market means the majority of smartphone users on public transportation are reading e-books. |
That's still hundreds of thousands or millions of readers. Certainly enough to contradict your claims.
Sorry, your powers of observation and your ability to analyze data is not as strong as you think they are. You aren't engaged in true observation and analysis, instead you are declaring your assumptions correct and refusing to acknowledge any other possible outcomes. |
You're off by a country mile. Read the article--book sales in Korea are trending down. Fewer and fewer people are reading books, including on public transportation.
What are they doing instead--playing games, texting and watching TV on smartphones. It's 2014!
As for assumptions, how many times did you use "might" in your post?
As for "possible outcomes," you're right that I'm not interested in the shite you throw at the wall. Probable outcomes is what interests me.
And please don't talk about "true observation" when your only purpose is to obfuscate.
It may be "overly simplistic," but it remains true: You're thinking is the equivalent of a blind rabbit running in circles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| "I read books on my smartphone so a substantial number of Koreans must be reading ebooks on their phones too." |
That was not what I said. That's not even the point I was trying to make. The point was that as someone who does read ebooks on the subway, I find it highly unlikely that you could distinguish my behavior from any other behaviors. That is what I wrote several posts ago.
| Quote: |
| "College students are not likely to read ebooks" |
No, I said college freshmen. Since they are fresh out of high school they have a much greater likelihood of not owning a smartphone. Again, if you can't control your emotions enough to read carefully, please stop arguing.
| Quote: |
| "Overseas Koreans make their food from scratch.... um, wait, er, no.....thhhhhey shop at Korean marts, yeah...and if they can't find it they ship it in." |
Yes, many overseas Koreans make their food from scratch. Many shop at Korean marts, and many ship stuff in. All of those can be true simultaneously. Also, I had 10 years of dealing with the Korean community back home, do you?
| Quote: |
| four of us on this thread (or five now, counting my wife, who thinks you are full of it) |
Dude, thats like me saying "Four of us on this thread" and the four being me, PGHBusan, madoka, and TUM. You four aren't exactly a middle of the road set there.
| Quote: |
| The purpose of the first series of links was to show that ebooks are not significant enough to be mentioned at all. |
I think your premise is deeply flawed. Your premise is that because an article doesn't mention an activity, therefore that activity isn't widespread. Furthermore, there is no expectation that you'd find anything about ebooks in those articles.
Also, articles 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 fail to mention Koreans using their smartphones to play games. Does that mean Koreans aren't playing games? The others do not mention ebooks, but do not NOT mention ebooks. One has a survey that only indicates the top 10 results and all of those are above 50%, which doesn't answer your question. The other lists 'entertainment' and 'other' as a categories. There is nothing conclusive. Did you even go to college? Are you really this bad at data analysis and critical thinking?
| Quote: |
| If you do not wish to accept the total corroboration of all this evidence, then that's your choice. That's 5 people, one of whom is Korean, plus a series of articles about smartphone use with no mention of ebooks, plus a survey, plus a downloads report. |
And I posted 4 articles of my own, one of which details Korean ebook sales in 2011 citing Korean ebook sales as the highest percentage of total book sales in the world.
And as for your "source", not exactly the most compelling. You do realize that your source states that Korean ebooks did $7.5 billion (USD) in sales in 2011 alone? Sorry, but that doesn't sound very plausible to me, and so I have to question its validity. That doesn't read like a scholarly sutdy or even a reasonable piece of journalism. It looks like some undergrad paper that you dug up. Apparently you didn't. Do you ever question your conclusions after you make them?
So which is it crescent? Is your article valid and the Korean ebook market did $7.5 billion in sales in 2011 OR is your article a complete crock of crap?
| Quote: |
As for assumptions, how many times did you use "might" in your post? |
Yes, unlike you who apparently believes that they have 100% accuracy in determining what people are doing on their smartphones at a glance, and refuse to reconsider a position once its been settled upon, I put those qualifiers and disclaimers because I understand that I am not perfect and can make mistakes. You should try it. You should try it. Instead of "I know what Koreans are doing on their smartphones and I can tell at a glance" (a premise that is unverified by you or any independent agency) maybe you should try "Most of the time I think Koreans are gaming or texting, but I'm open to the possibility that more and more are using ebook apps". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LOL!
So you said college freshman. That still doesn't jive with the fact that 18-24 year olds are the highest demographic of ebook readers in SK. College freshman are right in the middle of that. If you want to assert that they are somewhat special then you can file that under your usual BS. Still a simplistic conclusion. Doesn't make you less wrong.
So you said because you read ebooks, that others can't distinguish what you're doing. Simplistic conclusion, and wrong.
So you said Koreans make food from scratch, and buy it and get it shipped in. What you fail to admit is that you only referred to the second two after being laughed at on the first simplistic conclusion. Rather than admit you were wrong, you edited your answer. Paint it any way you like.
And, you can cite as many articles as you like showing how high ebook sales are, or how fast the market is growing from almost zero, but that does not mean ebooks are being read on smartphones by a large group of people. Simplistic conclusion.
As for articles 2,4,5,6,7, I suggest you hit "ALT" F or whatever it is on windows so you can find the word 'game'. Reading seems to be giving you as much trouble as analogies do.
Link 2 does mention games. No mention of these much used e-readers.
Link 4 talks about apps specifically. If e-reader apps were used enough to be noted, it would have been.
Link 5 mentions game sand apps. No mention of e-readers.
Link 6 mentions games. No e-readers.
Link 7 mentions games. no-readers.
In articles about cellphone usage, any uses of significance would of course be mentioned in at least one of them .
As for the study, that could easily be a typo. I didn't notice. It said early on that the korean market was less than the US market and gave a lower sales for the US. It does discredit the study. I'll admit that. It has nothing to do however, with drawing conclusions because everything else lines up.
What about the link that shows ebook content equals 4% of all mobile downloads? Somehow you misread that as 'bytes' and then dismissed it when corrected. And you wonder why i get frustrated? You're dense. That's why.
So, great now we have the corroborative evidence of 7 links that dismiss the presence of ebook activity, plus the observations of 5 people, not four. And one of them is Korean. Oh wait... I'll say it for you....according to you she will say anything to agree and keep the peace with me, her husband. Wrong again. Simplistic conclusion. Do you know her? She has no problem disagreeing with me. The problem for you is, she disagrees with you. So, you didn't even want include her with the rest of us.
She even snickered when I asked her. See, SR, it's not only us on Daves who think you are a joke.
Last edited by crescent on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:23 pm; edited 4 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
That was not what I said. That's not even the point I was trying to make. |
That is really annoying when someone does that, isn't it? Hopefully you wrote that down and will remember this the next time you do that very same thing (you do it a lot, btw). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
br posted:
| Quote: |
| Yes, unlike you who apparently believes that they have 100% accuracy in determining what people are doing on their smartphones at a glance, and refuse to reconsider a position once its been settled upon, I put those qualifiers and disclaimers because I understand that I am not perfect and can make mistakes. You should try it. You should try it. Instead of "I know what Koreans are doing on their smartphones and I can tell at a glance" (a premise that is unverified by you or any independent agency) maybe you should try "Most of the time I think Koreans are gaming or texting, but I'm open to the possibility that more and more are using ebook apps". |
No, you rarely if ever qualify statements. You use might and probably when you're just pulling "facts" out of the air.
There is no evidence that more and more Koreans are using e-book apps so this "possibility" is just you grasping at one more straw. You've watched too many courtroom dramas and believe that raising false possibilities is enough to win your case. Sorry, you've got a knowledgeable jury here.
I rode the subway today. Of the 23 people using smartphones who I was close enough to observe (I had to transfer, that's why so many.), only one could have been reading and that's being very generous because I think he was sleeping. But since he was wearing a Castro cap pulled down low over his eyes, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
As I originally posted, very few Koreans are reading on their smartphones. You just posted you "can may mistakes." You've made one here, so either drop it, or man up and admit that you're wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| With the current thread derailment, I would have to also go with Dave's ESL Posters that will spend much of their time arguing something that is absolutely useless....I know it can be boring desk sitting, or being all alone without things to do, but seriously, ANYTHING is better than spamming a thread with off topic ebook crap. Or apparently not...and that is what makes it so weird. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| With the current thread derailment, I would have to also go with Dave's ESL Posters that will spend much of their time arguing something that is absolutely useless....I know it can be boring desk sitting, or being all alone without things to do, but seriously, ANYTHING is better than spamming a thread with off topic ebook crap. Or apparently not...and that is what makes it so weird. |
Do you really read all of that crap? I skim, very quickly. It's ridiculous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| With the current thread derailment, I would have to also go with Dave's ESL Posters that will spend much of their time arguing something that is absolutely useless....I know it can be boring desk sitting, or being all alone without things to do, but seriously, ANYTHING is better than spamming a thread with off topic ebook crap. Or apparently not...and that is what makes it so weird. |
Do you really read all of that crap? I skim, very quickly. It's ridiculous. |
Exactly. Just skim the first couple of sentences and you know the rest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just read the username and skip it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
