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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Toby
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Wedded Bliss
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 Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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If this has degenerated into a 'Koreans are racist' thread, surely that is singling out a nation, purely because we live here and see, on very rare occasions, incidents that could be viewed as being racist.
My grandmother, bless her, would have died on the spot if I had gone home with either a french or black girlfriend. Was she racist or was she purely remembering, with the french anyway, her past and the wars?
Racism is something that we will always come across. Anywhere, anytime and in any country. We can't stop it as there will always be narrow minded individuals who promote and cause the problems.
Highlighting a few incidents that have happened is a trivial past time really. Korea is getting up to speed with the foreign world. It never really had to before. It only had to deal with the Japanese and the Chinese in times gone by and it did that wuite effectively.
Of course there is going to be anti-western sentiment. We don't, as foreigners, always paint the best picture of the western world. The older generations will of course have bias towards foreigners as a result of the war, whether it be good or bad bias is up the to the individual.
You may remember that I had a racist attack - albeit verbal, but racist nonetheless. Vented here. Got a positive response. Got on with life. It's going to happen again and through no fault of my own. We are here out of choice. We stay out of choice. Racism is, unfortunately something that we will have to deal with all the time we stay here. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
"Seenany white people lynched here in Korea?"
- Nope, but saw an army major get stabbed to death in Itaewon...because he was American.
- Saw another GI get stabbed (but not killed) because he was American
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And what were you doing during these stabbings? Seeing a man get killed before your eyes doesn't seem to have affected you that much.
Do you have any links? This kind of incident would have made news. |
No Urban, I didn't see it in front of my eyes. I was living here when it happend, and I saw it on the news. I used the verb 'see' because that's how the question was posed to me "Seen any white people lynched". Literary license. I tried to be clever. I used to think that you were smart enough to tell the difference. Now I think you would post that the sky was green if I said it was blue...
What would I do if I saw it in front of my eyes. Try to step in an help and call the police. Then, I would go home and think of a way to turn the event into something that would really tick you off.
Links! Links! Links! Man, you must be a joy to be around...
UM: How are you?
Diver: Great, thank you.
UM: Great? Can you prove it? Do you have links?
Why would I make this stuff up?
Last edited by diver on Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Hello, Diver!
I hope that the retort which followed your post is not bothering you.
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Thank you for the support. No, the retorts that came following my post did not bother me because no one was able to rebut what I was saying. They rebutted something that I didn't say, which is that we have it as bad as African-Americans in the US in the 50s and 60s. It's called a straw man argument...I remeber it from a logic class I had to take at Uni...it was required at my school. Not at all of them I guess.
While I appreciatethe support, I think it would be going a little far to say we (white, or non-Koreans...whatever) have it as bad as African-Americans did. I think it could even be insulting to African-Americans to saythat our lot is just as bad.
That said...I agree with you one hundred percent. The attitudes are the same. Koreans not wanting to site with foreigners on public transportation is the same thinking that led to segregation laws in the US.
The other, main beef I had was people making excuses for Korean racism. Why is my 'example' ridiculous, while other peoples' excuses for racism are reasonable? Why do Koreans get a free pass? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: |
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[quote="diver"][quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
| diver wrote: |
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Links! Links! Links! Man, you must be a joy to be around...
Why would I make this stuff up? |
If you are going to post something to support your claims, you should provide links.
I never said that you made this stuff up. This is now the SECOND time I have said this. I wish people on this board would learn to read. Guess I'll just have keep on hoping. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
Hello, Diver!
I hope that the retort which followed your post is not bothering you.
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Thank you for the support. No, the retorts that came following my post did not bother me because no one was able to rebut what I was saying. They rebutted something that I didn't say, which is that we have it as bad as African-Americans in the US in the 50s and 60s. While I appreciatethe support, I think it would be going a little far to say we (white, or non-Koreans...whatever) have it as bad as African-Americans did. I think it could even be insulting to African-Americans to saythat our lot is just as bad.
? |
Then why did you bring up Rosa Parks and start talking about African-Americans? If you were not comparing our lot to them, then they shouldn't have even been mentioned. Or do you just enjoy bringing up unrelated topics? |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Comparing does not mean equating.
He was doing the former not the latter. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
Hello, Diver!
I hope that the retort which followed your post is not bothering you.
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Thank you for the support. No, the retorts that came following my post did not bother me because no one was able to rebut what I was saying. They rebutted something that I didn't say, which is that we have it as bad as African-Americans in the US in the 50s and 60s. While I appreciatethe support, I think it would be going a little far to say we (white, or non-Koreans...whatever) have it as bad as African-Americans did. I think it could even be insulting to African-Americans to saythat our lot is just as bad.
? |
Then why did you bring up Rosa Parks and start talking about African-Americans? If you were not comparing our lot to them, then they shouldn't have even been mentioned. Or do you just enjoy bringing up unrelated topics? |
In critical thinking, one sometimes creates an analogy to demonstrate a point. This is what I did.
Do you think that the reasoning (racism) behind the treatment of Ms. Parks et al was excusable? I don't. I think that racism in Korea is just as inexcusable.
You are harping on about someting I didn't say because you can't come up with a solid rebuttal to the point I did make. That point is (again...for the special people), any attempt to justify racist behavior by Koreans would be as ridiculous as trying to justify segregationist policies in the US in the 50s and 60s. I can't spell it out any clearer for you because I don't have any crayons. I think you are just harping on, not because you disagree, but because you don't like me to be honest.
Once again, no one has answered or tried to explain why Koreans have this rep. It is not limited to English teachers in Korea, and it is certainly not because of anything I have posted on this board. If you think that I, and the others on this board that agree with me, are out in left field...can you explain why we are not the only ones that feel this way? Do you think there is some vast anti-Korean conspiracy? Do you you think we sit around and make this stuff up because we know it bothers you? Or do you think, that just maybe, there might be something to it? |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Ok, let's look at this from a different perspective. You're a girl. You get on the bus and it's full of guys (same race) and ONE other girl. There are 2 seats left, one next to the girl, one next to a guy. Which would you choose?
Like usually chooses like...excpet for white English teachers in Korea! We're all out to prove that WE'RE not prejudicial! (When was the last time YOU sat next to the white person on the bus??) |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:03 am Post subject: |
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What rep is that Diver?
How widespread is that "rep"?
What about the fact that "reps" are most often based on rumors and unfounded or unverified information?
I do see your analogy to prove a point. However it was a [/i]faulty analogy.
Racism is unacceptable. Racism is also hard to measure and many times measured based on ones own ignorance and racism.
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lush72
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: I am Penalty Kick!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| (When was the last time YOU sat next to the white person on the bus??) |
Today actually, on the 750 bus. The guy wouldnt shut up either- kept asking me all sorts of job questions. I should just stick to taxis.... |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| lush72 wrote: |
| ajuma wrote: |
| (When was the last time YOU sat next to the white person on the bus??) |
Today actually, on the 750 bus. The guy wouldnt shut up either- kept asking me all sorts of job questions. I should just stick to taxis.... |
I avoid those white-skinned westerners like the plague. its called reverse reverse racism. |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| lush72 wrote: |
| ajuma wrote: |
| (When was the last time YOU sat next to the white person on the bus??) |
Today actually, on the 750 bus. The guy wouldnt shut up either- kept asking me all sorts of job questions. I should just stick to taxis.... |
I avoid those white-skinned westerners like the plague. its called reverse reverse racism. |
Hangin' with the Nigerians? |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| If WE won't sit next to "our own", why do we expect Koreans to?? (And I agree...if I DO happen to sit next to white folk, they're either missionary, military or mentally unstable!) |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
While I appreciate the support, I think it would be going a little far to say we (white, or non-Koreans...whatever) have it as bad as African-Americans did. I think it could even be insulting to African-Americans to say that our lot is just as bad.
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First Urban Myth accuses Diver of saying that we are treated as badly as the Blacks in the United States.
Now Diver accuses me of saying that.
I had those words put in my mouth on my own thread, and now it is happening again.
I am only saying that prejudice toward Blacks in the United States and prejudice toward foreigners in Korea is the same in principle, not necessarily in degree.
I'll repeat that 10 more times:
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
If that's still too hard, let me know and I'll repeat it 10 more times. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
While I appreciate the support, I think it would be going a little far to say we (white, or non-Koreans...whatever) have it as bad as African-Americans did. I think it could even be insulting to African-Americans to say that our lot is just as bad.
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First Urban Myth accuses Diver of saying that we are treated as badly as the Blacks in the United States.
Now Diver accuses me of saying that.
I had those words put in my mouth on my own thread, and now it is happening again.
I am only saying that prejudice toward Blacks in the United States and prejudice toward foreigners in Korea is the same in principle, not necessarily in degree.
I'll repeat that 10 more times:
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
In principle, not necessarily in degree.
If that's still too hard, let me know and I'll repeat it 10 more times. |
Sorry Tomato if I misunderstood your post...I was still a little sensitive to Urban's criticism when I read it.
I agree one hundred percent that the principle is the same. |
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