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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| davyteacher wrote: |
Be happy and make money just speaking English and ignore half of the stupid Korean schools that only want one type of accent.
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Well perhaps there wouldn't be a prejudice against British-English speaking teachers if so many weren't so bent on telling Koreans that their American pronunciation is 'wrong'. |
When was that established? You are the only person who has concluded that.I've read the article and it is inconclusive as to who told the student that their accent was wrong.My guess is that it was an over pedantic fellow student in a multi-lingual class. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| waggo wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
| davyteacher wrote: |
Be happy and make money just speaking English and ignore half of the stupid Korean schools that only want one type of accent.
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Well perhaps there wouldn't be a prejudice against British-English speaking teachers if so many weren't so bent on telling Koreans that their American pronunciation is 'wrong'. |
When was that established? You are the only person who has concluded that.I've read the article and it is inconclusive as to who told the student that their accent was wrong.My guess is that it was an over pedantic fellow student in a multi-lingual class. |
Concluded what? I wasn't referring to the article. I was referring to countless personal experiences and seemingly the experiences of others:
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| ]However, there was an egregious display of Brit arrogance at work today. (It must be those cosmic forces at work again.) My American and British co-workers and I were talking to a student. The student said 'butter' but with a 'd' sound: budder. The Brit said, "Mr. Kim, you are Korean, not American. It's OK to speak with a Korean accent, but only the Americans say 'budder'. You should say 'butter'." This is from an Oxford graduate. (At least that is what he claims. I have my doubts.) |
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Oh I see!
Ya-Ya boy is an Anti-British troll....quite amusing actually.
Quite amusing that you are choosing to quote him as well.  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-Ya boy is an Anti-British troll |
I take exception to that. I will admit to being anti a particular Brit who tells students that my accent is wrong and that Koreans sound silly when they speak English with an American accent. (I think they speak with a Korean accent.)
Personally, I think of myself as more of a gnome than a troll. I found I was always getting my feet wet when I hid under bridges. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| If you were shopping for lets say, a vehicle to cover all terrain, would you buy one thats proved itself already in ever country and continent, and is still used most poularly by all of them? Or would you buy a recent, untested model that was made in one place, and never went anywhere else, that most people worldwide do not recognise? Thats the difference between English english and american English. |
Modern English English is substantially different that the historical English English that conquered the world. The modern generic American English accent is far closer in pronunciation and spelling to the English the conquered the world than the current generic English English accent.
In the early 18th century, the "upper class" of the English empire began to speak in French to show how educated and cultured they were because any commoner could learn to speak English. It was at this same time that random "u"s and other letters began showing up in English words to show high-class they were by "french-a-fying" words. Look to this forum here in how people sprinkle Korean words into their sentences to show how smart and cultured they are. Same deal back then.
Then around the middle of the 18th century, educating the masses began. Suddenly children and adults who would otherwise never be exposed to reading books began to learn things like how to read. And then they started to see letters in words (like the "T" in often) which were silent and they cried out in pain for the loss of these letters, so they began to pronounce them again. From the dead, thousands of letters were brought back to life in a great movement of the language. It was as though education had aroused the language as the pronunciation became very hard quite quickly.
And then other sounds which had changed like "water" which had been pronounced as "wader" were restored to their rightful place after being lost for centuries!
And that is why, in short, modern English English is a rather new beast and not the beast that conquered the world. America the Proud is the greatest pillar of what English used to sound like and is the all-terrain-vehicle that conquered the world, even despite the factory making a new model.
Last edited by Gord on Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Deliciously witty .... factually bollox, but witty nonetheless .... |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Factually "bollox"? Gord is 100% right, as usual.
Google sometime the history of spelling reform attempts and also the relatively recent and French-influenced introduction of the superfluous "u" following "o". |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Deliciously witty .... factually bollox, but witty nonetheless .... |
I'm sorry, but what research have you done into the subject matter?
http://www.romeoandjuliet.com/players/pn2.html
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| "When Shakespeare wrote these plays, they were written for an accent that was much more, to paraphrase Anthony Burgess, like an American sound," Luhrmann explains. "Our general perception of the way that Shakespeare should sound when it is acted is with what is termed in England RP,' or received pronunciation,' which is a sound with lots of round vowels that essentially developed in the last century. |
This was the first hit on Google, followed by many, many more. There was even a report on CNN a while ago that was covering how the English accent has evolved over the ages. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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French was the official language of England from 1066 until the middle of the 15th century. In that period, the upper classes, both Norman and English, many of whose families were kin, including William, spoke French. The lower classes did not generally speak French but many French words passed into the common language as had many latin words centuries earlier. It is true that many words include the French "u" - not radom "u" - but that is neither here no there.
The upper classes have always spoken French, or at least pretended to. It was not an 18th century phenomenon. It may be then that the French "u" began to appear. That is not onconsistent with the general move to stanardisation of spelling, which had for centuries been truly random.
Churchill is famous for when addressing the French said "Prenez garde: je vais vous parler en francais" and later, talking about the Luftwaffe, "Nous allons nettoyer le ciel". Of course, he was half-American .... |
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sparkx
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: thekimchipot.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Rapier wrote: |
I'm the only one who has put forward a coherent, linguistically- based argument here as to why the Queens English should be the standard form for the world to communicate and come together in this century and beyond.
Its not good enough to say "I like the sound of the American accent" or whatever... |
But we're not living in Rapier's Theoretical World of Make Believe...this is the real world and in the real world a grammatically dubious brand of American English has become the standard with ALL international big businesses. Why? Because its "a tool, to do a job in the clearest and most efficient way (Rapier, 2004)."
I've been to a dozen global business conferences over the past year and it still amazes me to see people from all corners of world effectively communicating using this American style business English. What's even more amazing is seeing our UK distributor, who happens to be one of the most brilliant minds in the industry, delivering a speech using this same form of English due to the fact most people simply can't understand what the hell he's saying when using good ol' Queens English.
Face facts, the corporate world is the hamster on the wheel and with this new paradigm, Queens English is the equivalent of Sanskrit. |
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koldijk
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Location: ULSAN
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject: brits |
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| as long as we're picking on brits... why do kiwis think they're the only ones who speak proper english...after all they're almost 4 million strong!!! wow!!! a more narrow minded, stuck up bunch of people i have never before had the privilege to meet until i came to korea...they even have a bad rep. in canada... |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| as long as we're picking on brits... why do kiwis think they're the only ones who speak proper english...after all they're almost 4 million strong!!! wow!!! a more narrow minded, stuck up bunch of people i have never before had the privilege to meet until i came to korea...they even have a bad rep. in canada... |
Warmest regards to you and yours ... |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: brits |
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| koldijk wrote: |
| as long as we're picking on brits... why do kiwis think they're the only ones who speak proper english...after all they're almost 4 million strong!!! wow!!! a more narrow minded, stuck up bunch of people i have never before had the privilege to meet until i came to korea...they even have a bad rep. in canada... |
au contraire. I have neither had a negative experience with a kiwi, nor any idea what you are talking about. I do believe you are here attempting to bait those members of the community who are from New Zealand. Piss off. |
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koldijk
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Location: ULSAN
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject: anonymous butterfly |
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i get it... we're only allowed to bait english people...
slamming kiwis is "bad"
slamming the english is "good"
i get it now... |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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i get it... we're only allowed to bait english people...
slamming kiwis is "bad"
slamming the english is "good"
i get it now... |
I can't see the baiting you're talking about. We're having a civilised faux academic discussion about language. Aren't you getting a bit intense about this my man? |
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