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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
Whilst I enjoyed your posts there, Deconstructor, I don't generally agree with atheism. For me - an agnostic - atheists are just as bad as theists. To say "there is no God" requires the same leap of faith as to say "there is a God".
Frankly, none of us have a clue whether there's a God or not. |
It takes absolutely no faith to say that there is no God. LOOK AROUND! WHERE IS THIS BEING? Everything about the human condition points to the fact that THERE IS NO GOD. There is no reason for me to believe that there is God because I DON'T NEED GOD. I want to live a human life and live with what I have as part of my condition without plunging myself in fiction. Remember, no matter how hard we try, life is still a fiction without some extra help from the ridiculous idea of God.
I want to live a life where I am the master of my choices. And I will answer to no one for those choices. I came from nothingness and am going to that same nothingness. I am going to live on my own terms.
Who believes in God? Those who are lost; those who are afraid, those who are power hungry, and most of all those who are stupid. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Deconstructor:
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There is no reason for me to believe that there is God because I DON'T NEED GOD. I want to live a human life and live with what I have as part of my condition without plunging myself in fiction. Remember, no matter how hard we try, life is still a fiction without some extra help from the ridiculous idea of God.
I want to live a life where I am the master of my choices. And I will answer to no one for those choices. I came from nothingness and am going to that same nothingness. I am going to live on my own terms.
Who believes in God? Those who are lost; those who are afraid, those who are power hungry, and most of all those who are stupid.
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If I read you correctly, this is about you. It has very little to do with whether there is a GOD or not, it has to do with your desire to be number one in your life? Are you not master of your choices whether God exists or not?
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| Those who are lost; those who are afraid, those who are power hungry, and most of all those who are stupid. |
What evidence do you have to support your claims? I have met many people who are well educated, brave, self aware and self positive who believe in God, what do you have to support your accusations? |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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| Those who are lost; those who are afraid, those who are power hungry, and most of all those who are stupid. |
What evidence do you have to support your claims? I have met many people who are well educated, brave, self aware and self positive who believe in God, what do you have to support your accusations? |
Even the most intelligent among us are fundamentally stupid, including the faculties of MIT and Harvard. We can't help it: Absurd universe can only produce absurd beings.
What evidence do I have, you ask?
Any book about the human history will do, that is, the history of stupidity and the stupidity of history. We are such a wasted passion! We lose ourselves to find God, and since there is no God, we lose ourselves for Nothing, so said another idiot called J.P. Sartre. In life we are faced with the absurd and the only way out we think is to create something even more absurd, i.e. God.
The furthest point from stupidity is (social) science and democracy (not to say that these do not harbor essentials of stupidity) while stupidity in full force can be found among any Christian, Muslim or anyone who looks up expecting goodies. |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
What we all should really know is that your post reflects the thoughts of a foolish rascal...  |
Oh man! is this the best you can do? Sheeesh! You should be arrested for molesting language.  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| The premise that life evolves from dead matter is false. Where - in our experience of the universe - is that evident? Wherever we see life, we see that it is coming from life... |
They've created amino acids in a lab. Not quitelife, but not all that far from.
It's enough to know that nothing ever really is gone, even if it's not quite the same, isn't it? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Gods.
In the beginning there were volcanos, earthquakes, winds, rain, storms... and man said, "Let them be gods!"
But the gods were not good, for men still suffered, and man abandoned them.
Then there snakes, animals, birds, trees, and the occasional cow... and man said, "Let them be gods!"
But the gods were not good, for men still suffered, and man abandoned them.
Then there were men thought to be gods, or gods like men (persons)... and man said, "Let us be gods!"
Then men thought, "But my house is grander! My lands greater! Surely MY god is better!" But other men were jealous, and took this god for their own, or created ever greater gods to battle the enemy god.
But the gods were not good, (and they squabbled a lot) for men still suffered, and man abandoned them.
Then men thought, "How can men be gods? We need some real, honest to goodness, fly-down-out-of-the-sky gods."
But the gods were not good, for men still suffered, but man would not abandon them.
And in all of recorded history there has been a grand total of a little over 200 years of peace on the planet.
Thank you gods. |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| The premise that life evolves from dead matter is false. Where - in our experience of the universe - is that evident? Wherever we see life, we see that it is coming from life... |
They've created amino acids in a lab. Not quitelife, but not all that far from.
It's enough to know that nothing ever really is gone, even if it's not quite the same, isn't it? |
The second law of thermodynamics would disagree with you. Firstly, however, the foundation of the most primordial matter is nothing. Everything else, that is, all the explanations, are nothing but language, language playing with itself and never making contact with the world whatever that world is. I suspect just another empty word in language. The exit is the entrance. There is no way out. No one leaves here alive.
You guys can theories until cows come home, but you know that from time to time you feel the whiff of the wing of death and at that moment you are not ready for God because nothingness is way more powerful, intense and personal. All you feel is the Kierkegaardian dread from which you have never known, and shall never know, escape.
Moooo ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Why would you ask people who are alive what happens when you die?
Might as well ask which planet besides Earth houses sentient life. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Even the most intelligent among us are fundamentally stupid, including the faculties of MIT and Harvard. We can't help it: Absurd universe can only produce absurd beings.
What evidence do I have, you ask?
Any book about the human history will do, that is, [b]the history of stupidity and the stupidity of history. We are such a wasted passion! We lose ourselves to find God, and since there is no God, we lose ourselves for Nothing, so said another idiot called J.P. Sartre. In life we are faced with the absurd and the only way out we think is to create something even more absurd, i.e. God.
The furthest point from stupidity is (social) science and democracy (not to say that these do not harbor essentials of stupidity) while stupidity in full force can be found among any Christian, Muslim or anyone who looks up expecting goodies.
_________________
[/b] |
For a guy who doesn't believe in a future, you really make this world seem so attractive. I am surprised you woke up this morning, its such a sad outlook on us (the human species). If this is what atheisim teaches, I am now glad, I am not an athiest.
Satre = Satire, where we get the word from.
Mate, look up. Its daytime, the sky is above you, a sun to warm your face. At night, the moon, the stars, to give you amazement etc. What you call wasted life looking for God is easily wasted on other things. e.g. wasted on bosses and jobs who don't care for us, wasted on looks that fade, wasted on hope in a Government that ignores us, wasted on love that turns to hate, etc, etc.
If there is no God in the future and this is all there is, then don't be surprised if in the future, some person with nothing much to count on in your world doesn't finally remove the options it provides you with. Then what?
Hope, trust, love, etc. Can't you see that it is better to have a God than a depressive end on this world with no reason to even care about others. Nothing to even strive for, because it is all pointless in the end.
If you don't believe in more than what you are and this is all there is then you must be a very cruel man to try to steal the (supposed illusions about God) away from others and leave them to live in this world with nothing to hope for.
I have the feeling that you are trolling, because no one can be that depressed can they. |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Summer Wine"]
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For a guy who doesn't believe in a future, you really make this world seem so attractive. I am surprised you woke up this morning, its such a sad outlook on us (the human species). If this is what atheisim teaches, I am now glad, I am not an athiest.
Satre = Satire, where we get the word from.
Mate, look up. Its daytime, the sky is above you, a sun to warm your face. At night, the moon, the stars, to give you amazement etc. What you call wasted life looking for God is easily wasted on other things. e.g. wasted on bosses and jobs who don't care for us, wasted on looks that fade, wasted on hope in a Government that ignores us, wasted on love that turns to hate, etc, etc.
If there is no God in the future and this is all there is, then don't be surprised if in the future, some person with nothing much to count on in your world doesn't finally remove the options it provides you with. Then what?
Hope, trust, love, etc. Can't you see that it is better to have a God than a depressive end on this world with no reason to even care about others. Nothing to even strive for, because it is all pointless in the end.
If you don't believe in more than what you are and this is all there is then you must be a very cruel man to try to steal the (supposed illusions about God) away from others and leave them to live in this world with nothing to hope for.
I have the feeling that you are trolling, because no one can be that depressed can they. |
Another mark of human stupidity is the belief that nihilism is anti life. It is religion in its entirety that is anti life.
Let me tell you that I am not depressed and have never been. Even if I were, I would never cure it with the God pill. I have my friends, my family and my job that I love. I feel happy and lucky. I love my absurd life and laugh at it and with it every day.
See, you hit the nail on the head: We have faith in God because we have no faith in life. We think it's depressing. I have faith in my life no matter how pointless and stupid it is. That's all I have, that's all I want because nothing more is possible. Amor fati! as a less stupid man called Nietzsche once said.
Parenthetically, there are two kinds of religions people: First is the stupid kind that go through life la di da thinking all is well, and when all is not well, they pick up a book that they fundamentally misread and quickly find the answers to the most perplexing questions such as what�s for dinner. These are the 95% of all religious people. Then there are the 5% stupidly intelligent people who know in their hearts of hearts that this God business is a lot of claptrap, but choose to tear themselves apart in the name of faith. They lay under their beds in fetal position dreading the next moment of crisis when they can�t believe in God. It is the moment when their humanity replaces faith. They think they�ve lost God when actually they�ve regained their humanity.
Religious faith is the darkest force human heart has ever vomited onto its own lap. And for millennia we suffer its stench. I wanna hurl. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Nonsensical thoughts lead to nonsensical words, which lead to nonsensical actions which result in anxiety, depression and ultimately suicide. It's no wonder that so many "existentialist" philosophers (like Camu) were big on suicide ...
The Complete Whole or Supreme Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead. All emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balence.
All facilities are given to the small complete units (namely the living beings) to enable them to realize the Complete Whole. All forms of incompleteness are experienced due to incomplete knowledge of the Complete Whole. The human form of life is a complete manifestation of the consciousness of the living being, and it is obtained after evolving through 8,400,000 species of life in the cycle of birth and death. If in this human life of full consciousness the living entity does not realize his completeness in relation to the Complete Whole, he loses the chance to realize his completeness and is again put into the evolutionary cycle by the law of material nature...
The above is extracted from Sri Isopanisad - one of the ancient Vedic literatures. It is obviously very philosophical. Religion without philosophy becomes sentimentalism or fanatism. Philosophy without religion is dry speculation. Meditating on something void or impersonal amounts to wasting precious time we have in this rarely attained human form of life. Bhakti or devotional yoga beginning with hearing and chanting transcendental names of the Supreme Person is the recommended means for spiritual perfection in this most disturbed age of quarrel and confusion...
Last edited by Rteacher on Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Nonsensical thoughts lead to nonsensical actions which lead to anxiety, depression and ultimately suicide. It's no wonder that so many "existentialist" philosophers (like Camu) were big on suicide ... |
Just let me point out that something on the order of 75% of Americans, for example, are deists in one form or another. Would that not essentially indicate that 75% of the people who commit suicide believe in God? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't see a logical connection there, "EFLtrainer." (and I got an "A" in the only statistics course I ever took...)
Aside from that, I would estimate the actual percentage of people practicing pure religion in the U.S. to be much closer to 5%. Materialism reigns supreme - even within so-called Judeo-Christian institutions. If so-called religious leaders can not (or deliberately ignore) "Thou Shalt Not Kill" (meaning to not unnecessarily kill any living beings...) there can be no question of higher spiritual understanding. (As far as I know there is absolutely no proof that Jesus ever ate meat, and he is listed prominently on several lists of "famous vegetarians") ... Even the "Seventh Day Adventists" who run hospitals and restaurants around the world serve only vegetarian meals, understanding that's what Jesus wants of his true followers ... |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| I really don't see a logical connection there, "EFLtrainer." (and I got an "A" in the only statistics course I ever took...) |
How can you not? Did you not imply that there was a greater tendency toward suicide in certain people partly because they ate unhealthily, so were unhealthy? And part of their decision to eat an omnivorous diet was due to their lack of faith?
And your percentages are based on...? Your assumptions?
See, there is so seldom a religious point of view that doesn't take everyone else to task... If I ever go back to a deistic/religious way of life it is almost certain to be Zen-ish or Unitarian. (But let's not hold our breath, eh?) |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I still don't understand the point of your statistics (which of course can be spun to prove or disprove most any position...).
I also did not imply anything regarding "healthy diet" in my "...nonsenscal thoughts lead to nonsenscal words which lead to nonsensical actions which lead to anxiety, depression and suicide..." statement.
- I was specifically referring to impersonalist and voidist philosophies such as existentialism that the other poster (deconstructor ?) apparently was inspired by. "Zen" is also a voidist philosophy (although Buddha was an incarnation with a special mission) and I think that "Unitarian" is a watered down concoction tailored to suit special interests ... (if that's the only choice I guess I'd go with the "Unitarians" because they at least have a personal conception of God - albeit not a clear one...)
Last edited by Rteacher on Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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