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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| How do you feel about Koreans speaking to you in English? |
| I appreciate it. I was the oldest child in my family or the only child. |
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34% |
[ 30 ] |
| I resent it. I was the oldest child in my family or the only child. |
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13% |
[ 12 ] |
| I appreciate it. I wasn't the oldest child, but I was one of the oldest in a family of 4 or more children. |
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6% |
[ 6 ] |
| I resent it. I wasn't the oldest child, but I was one of the oldest in a family of 4 or more children. |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| I appreciate it. I was the middle child in my family. |
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9% |
[ 8 ] |
| I resent it. I was the middle child in my family. |
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3% |
[ 3 ] |
| I appreciate it. I wasn't the youngest child, but I was one of the youngest in a family of 4 or more children. |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| I resent it. I wasn't the youngest child, but I was one of the youngest in a family of 4 or more children. |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| I appreciate it. I was the youngest child in my family. |
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20% |
[ 18 ] |
| I resent it. I was the youngest child in my family. |
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6% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 86 |
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| Author |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You are holding up your right hand and saying, "I, Homer, hereby permit the Korean people to treat myself and my compatriots as perennial infants. I hereby testify that I have no profiency in the Korean language, nor have any hopes of ever gaining profiency in the Korean language. I therefore accept my position as intellectual inferior to the Korean people, whose precious time cannot be wasted in playing along with the pipe drams of my compatriots who hope to gain profiency in the Korean language. In the name of Miriam Ferguson, I submit this pledge, Amen." |
This quote proves Homer's point.
If I remember correctly, he also speaks fluent Korean.
No one who disagrees with you are submitting to anything. We simply understand the motivation behind Koreans who try to speak to us in English.
Blaming Koreans not speaking to you in Korean for your own lack of language ability is a terrible cop out. Many many foreigners have become fluent in this language, and you can too. It's a grind but it can be done. Since you're in the 99th percentile for langauge ability, if I'm remembering correctly again, you should get there one day.
You really do have a twisted view on the world, and I tend to agree that you may need psychiatric help. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Tomato,
you really need to take a break from Korea - get out of the country for a few weeks and come back, maybe then your reality filter will start working once again. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Based on current results the poll shows about 75% of foreigners or so appreciate Koreans speaking English to them.
To the OP: You're not going to change too many minds when 3/4ths of the population (so far) holds a different perception.
I think you'd like my school though....the VP wants me to speak ONLY in Korean to him. |
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jaderedux2
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: lurking just lurking
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Homer, thank you for counselling, but I don't remember consulting.
Jade, I'm afraid your cultural relativist argument isn't going to work on me.
When a person makes a cultural relativist argument, that person is really saying, "There's nothing we can do about it, so we may as well give in."
When we learn about polygamy in Islamic culture, we make excuses like "It's part of their culture" and "It's part of their religion."
But look what happens when a small group of Mormon fundamentalists try to practice polygamy in a nation of three hundred million monogamists?
The monogamist majority does not hesitate to barge in and take over.
Do the cultural relativists rush to the defense of the Mormon fundamentalists then?
The Koreans will keep on treating foreigners like helpless infants only as long as Jade and Homer keep submitting.
The plantation owners in the South tried to take Native Americans as slaves, but the Native Americans flat out refused.
Great Britain tried to hold India as a colony, but the people of India flat out refused.
Norway and Sweden once tried to declare war on each other, but the people of both countries flat out refused.
The people of Korea will stop trying to converse in English with us as soon as we flat out refuse. |
Merde! How can you compare people trying to be polite and polygamy and slave owning. Anyway good luck in your crusade. And be damned all those nice Korean that try to be polite to foreigners.
Come on --- slaves and Koreans speaking English to you are hardly in the same ball park much less the same universe. Ah the slippery slope one day you let Koreans speak English to you and the next we will all be forced into slavery. Koreans speaking English to you and what's next you will be working in a factory making soccer balls for 10 cents an hour. You are above all things not stupid so comparing Koreans speaking English to you and slavery is far beneath you.
I don't particularly like taking off my shoes all the time but I do it because it is tradition here. No skin of my nose and while I find it extremely annoying I do it because it IS POLITE.
I don't however shove push and get in front of people in lines, which is common here, because........wait for it......IT IS NOT POLITE.
Tomato my vegetable friend....the world is a strange place. A few Koreans speaking English to you and getting you all up in a tizzy is beyond my comprehension. Anyway good luck. I think if you were back home where I live you would be that old guy that sits on his front porch and yells at kids to get off his lawn with a shotgun full of paper wad shots.
Be happy dude. Koreans talk to you. They seem to like you. You seem to be a good teacher. Embrace their politeness and keep speaking in Korean. Oh and take the mean ol' ugly chip off your shoulder.
Also, why do I read these threads? Mostly because I am flabbergasted at someone who is so angry at people who are just trying to be nice or are trying to hone their English skills like you are trying to hone your Korean skills. I find it like a car wreck I just can't look away.
Jade |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Hello, samd!
Hello, SuperHero!
Thank you for counselling, but I don't remember consulting.
Hello, Urban Myth!
What is the major premise of your argument?
That the majority is always right?
The majority used to believe that the Sun revolved around the Earth,
but the majority today believes that the Earth revolves around the Sun.
That must have been a serious jolt when the Sun stopped revolving around the Earth and the Earth started revolving around the Sun.
Hello, Jade!
That's the sixty-leventh time I've heard that "they're just trying to be nice to you."
But it's all on the surface.
It means nothing more than a phony liberal walking up and shaking hands with a Black person.
I have a strong suspicion that what Koreans say to us and what they say behind our backs are two different things.
Here are two signs which I got from a Korean sign language book.
When I asked about these two pictures, I was told that Westerners are stereotyped as having long pointy noses.
Here is a song which I copied from a children's song book:
When foreigners dance, they shake their heads and shake their bodies.
They shake everything. We don't do that.
Arirang, arirang, arariyo.
Don't get me wrong.
I wouldn't mind being criticized for having a funny nose or for dancing funny.
What I do mind is the two-facedness.
When I was in South America, I found that the citizens who were the most open about their anti-gringo hatred were the very ones who were the most respectful toward me.
None of the professed anti-gringos ever asked me any of the standard second person questions.
None of the professed anti-gringos ever assumed that I was a tourist, assumed that I took travel snapshots, or assumed that I didn't know the language.
That's why I suspect that 캔아이헬프유 vampires and the calculator-displaying store clerks are the ones who have the most to say behind our backs.
I hope that someday, my Korean proficiency will be enough to hold such conversations in Korean.
Then maybe I can escape once and for all from the yes-I-like-kimchi conversations. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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I forgot tomato...Koreans are out to "enslave" you through speaking English to you.
They want to show you how intellectually inept you are by speaking English to you.
You keep fighting the good fight Che...you and your banditos will prevail over the "man" and his evil ways. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Hello, samd!
Hello, SuperHero!
Thank you for counselling, but I don't remember consulting. |
Never had a person give you friendly advice. Really it's time for you to get out of the country and relax for a bit. You are far too uptight.
Tomato when clearly most people on this board, including those who speak Koeran well, say that they do not have a problem with Koreans speaking English to them there really is no problem.
If you have a problem with Koreans speaking English, then clearly you have the problem. Very few other foreigners are complaining about this to the same extent that you are. you are the guy who complains about everything and expects everyone to change to your vision of reality, when clearly you are the one who is not fitting into the rest of society. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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How come a foreigner has the right to object to a feature of Korean society only if enough other foreigners agree?
If enough other foreigners complain about English instruction in Korea, that makes it right.
If enough other foreigners complain about how women are treated in Korea, that makes it right.
But if only one foreigner complains, that makes it wrong.
See what I mean about you guys following the herd?
Have you ever thought about what a chaotic world this would be if everyone retreated over the slightest mishap?
We would have a 100% divorce rate, because no two people can ever get along perfectly.
Every child would be put up for adoption, because no child can ever behave perfectly.
Every school would have empty classrooms with empty desk, because every school will have to expel every child who misspells a word, misses a math problem, or whispers in class.
Every workplace would have to hire and fire an entire new staff at the rate of once a day, because they would not tolerate any employee who can't do the job perfectly the first time. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
HelloHello, Urban Myth!
What is the major premise of your argument?
That the majority is always right?
The majority used to believe that the Sun revolved around the Earth,
but the majority today believes that the Earth revolves around the Sun.
That must have been a serious jolt when the Sun stopped revolving around the Earth and the Earth started revolving around the Sun.
. |
I stated the major premise quite clearly. It was that you are NOT going to change too many minds to your way of thinking, if the majority seem to hold the opposing viewpoint.
I think the main point people are making is that there are more important things to get bent out of shape about (the new E-2 visa regulations are a case in point). And a couple of these are people who are FLUENT in Korean and can speak it on a regular basis.
I just find it hard to comprehend exactly how someone speaking ENGLISH to you, enslaves you to KOREAN culture...at least that is what I got out from your posts. If that is not what you ARE saying, how about clarifying your stance? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
How come a foreigner has the right to object to a feature of Korean society only if enough other foreigners agree?
Because one person's view is subjective and may be biased by certain experiences. No one would take seriously a survey or study that was only based on one person...therefore why take it seriously elsewhere?
But to answer your question...you do have every right to complain about a feature of Korean society...just as WE have every right to tell you that you are wrong
If enough other foreigners complain about English instruction in Korea, that makes it right.
Again see my point about the survey. Once a distinct pattern emerges with enough similarities it is possible to make some accurate generalizations. But one person is not enough, not nearly enough, to make said generalizations.
If enough other foreigners complain about how women are treated in Korea, that makes it right.
See above
But if only one foreigner complains, that makes it wrong.
. It doesn't make it "wrong" necessarily, just biased. (Note that this is NOT an attack on you...everyone is biased in their own ways). Once again one opinion is not enough to make an accurate generalization about anything.
Anyway I hope that this clears up any confusion about my stance on the matter.
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Die thread die.
75% of us don't mind Koreans speaking English to us.
Tomato really hates it.
33% of poster's can't agree with him.
97% of the time he thinks they are wrong.
I think The Onion is drivel.
76% of pople think I'm a c@nt.
I'm bored, so are you.
S3x orgy? |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And a couple of these are people who are FLUENT in Korean and can speak it on a regular basis. |
What's your point?
Just because they speak Korean better than I do, they have a right to their opinion and I don't?
| Quote: |
| I just find it hard to comprehend exactly how someone speaking ENGLISH to you, enslaves you to KOREAN culture...at least that is what I got out from your posts. If that is not what you ARE saying, how about clarifying your stance? |
They're not enslaving me to Korean culture, they are relegating me to a narrowly-defined role.
I'm not expected to sign up for Japanese classes or music classes.
I'm not expected to check out books at the library.
I'm not expected to do anything but watch Western movies, listen to Western pop music, and get drunk every weekend at the nearest Western bar.
In fact, I am so simple and predictable that they can read my mind.
If I catch a taxi, that automatically means I'm going to the bus terminal.
If I ask for directions in a public building, that automatically means I'm asking for directions to the rest room.
If I stand in line at the ticket counter, that automatically means I'm going to Seoul.
How the rest of you not only tolerate all this crap, but even appreciate it is beyond me.
I honestly don't see why I'm asking too much.
My Korean may not be Level 6, but I'm capable of saying a darn sight more than yes-I-like-kimchi.
It's obviously not to much to ask of children, because children treat me like an individual.
When my English students arrive at class early, sometimes they bring their music books from school. They practice playing the songs on the piano while I practice singing them.
If I am reading a book during break time, the students sometimes ask me what the book is about.
I may have to look up a few words in order to tell them, but even so, it sure beats yes-I-like-kimchi.
One weekend, a child at the library told me what his name was.
I took out a pencil and paper and wrote a song using the child's name. The other children found this fascinating, so they too asked me to write songs using their names.
If I'm not asking too much of the Korean children, I don't see why I'm asking too much of the Korean adults.
Yet no Korean Anglophone has ever asked me to have a jam session.
No Korean Anglophone has ever asked me about what kind of books I read.
No Korean Anglophone has ever paid any recognition of my music composition skills.
In fact, no Korean Anglophone has ever asked me anything deeper than do-you-like-kimchi. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Personality and outlook play a large part in our social interactions Tomato. |
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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
| In fact, no Korean Anglophone has ever asked me anything deeper than do-you-like-kimchi. |
I often find myself having conversations with strangers that progress beyond what food I like or whatever other menial topic may have started said conversation. Is there something special about me? I don't think so.
Maybe it's time you concider the problem may be you and not everyone else. Maybe people can feel your resentment towards them. I'm going to assume that as soon as someone speaks English to you, you visably show your indignation and maybe that turns them off of wanting to engage you on a less superficial level. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| I'm going to assume that as soon as someone speaks English to you, you visably show your indignation. . . |
I sure hope so. |
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