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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Joo
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| Why doesn't Hamas just give up its war? |
Why doesn't Israel give up its colonisation project?
fiveeagles
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| Israel, though under the judgment of God, will arise and become the great nation that it is destined to be. |
And that's the big hole in the pro Israel argument. It relies on a flaky religious claim. 'Our God promised us this land so we're here to collect!' Forget internatonal law, human rights, indigenous rights , the violence, theft and racism of colonisation. No, we are carrying out the the marching orders of the one true God, so it's all good.
Funny how its the twice borns like fiveeagles who have traditionally been the jew bashers now staunch Israel supporters because it suits their religious dogma. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Why doesn't Israel give up its colonisation project? |
I don't know exactly what you mean.
But I will guess. Are you talking about the West Bank and Gaza? (or Tel Aviv)
Well Israel did leave Gaza. And they would have given up both under Bill Clintons peace plan but Arafat did not accept it.
As for Tel Aviv is that part of what Israel ought to give up? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Forget internatonal law, human rights, indigenous rights , the violence, theft and racism of colonisation. No, we are carrying out the the marching orders of the one true God, so it's all good. |
So, what do you suggest?
By the way, if you are Canadian, American, Australian or Kiwi you really don't have a leg to stand on, unless you are planning to give back your 'stolen' land. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Ho hum, and did the Israeli act of kidnapping 2 civilians (a Palestinian doctor and his brother) the day before this event that you mention cause your sympathy for Israel to wane as well? After all, kidnapping civilians is a far greater violation of international law than kidnapping soldiers. |
Palestinian. Not relevant to Hizballah's actions. Sorry. I realize I was responding to Butterfly, who was talking about the Palestinians, but I was directing my own comment to Hizballah.
That being said, you have to admit the Palestinians did screw themselves over with all the bickering amongst themselves (even within Hamas itself). Part of Israel's success over the years is its ability to unite when needed. Unfortunately Palestine hasn't been able to do the same. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Bigvern
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| So, what do you suggest? |
What do I suggest? It's right there in front of you, international law, indigenous rights...
Do you believe the creation of Israel is justified by a religious claim? Do you believe like that Christian flake fiveeagles its just fine because it is the fulfilment of biblical prophesy?
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| By the way, if you are Canadian, American, Australian or Kiwi you really don't have a leg to stand on, unless you are planning to give back your 'stolen' land. |
That's absurd. I've always supported moves to address the injustices of colonisation in my country. A painful, slow process but necessary if my society wants to claim itself a just one. Some of these former colonies are doing better at addressing their history than others. Australia, a rich first world country, its indigenous population with worse statistics than most 3rd world countries. The likes of John Pilger bringing their plight and Australia's shame to public exposure. But Joo calls him a bigot, no doubt in his twisted logic thinks Pilger's reporting on the Australian aboriginal plight is, gasp, anti-american.
Joo
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| I don't know exactly what you mean. |
I mean the end to the 'settlements', those armed fortresses constructed on occupied land, inhabited by 10000s of armed 'settlers'. The colonies virtually encircling Jerusalem. That project which only accelerated during 'peace negotiations'.
How about you Joo, do you believe Israel is some kind of divine religious act, the fulfilment of biblical prophesy? Is that your justification for blindly backing Israel?
And you keep going on about a wad of greenbacks being waved under Palestinian noses to get them to shut up and go away. You seriously believe a cynical ploy like that could fly? What price do you put on your national identity, your right to self determination? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| And that's the big hole in the pro Israel argument. It relies on a flaky religious claim. 'Our God promised us this land so we're here to collect!' Forget internatonal law, human rights, indigenous rights , the violence, theft and racism of colonisation. No, we are carrying out the the marching orders of the one true God, so it's all good. |
that is also the whole in argument on side that you support.
Do Israeli's enemies treat their minorites well?
Are they willing to protect their minorities?
Do they respect international law?
Do they respect human rights?
Were they willing to respect the rights of Arab Jews or did they want to to ethnically cleanse them- in 1948? and afterwards?
Colonialism who did the West Bank and Gaza belong to in 1966?
Of course Israel has offered to pay compensation to those who lost their land in 1948. That is not good enough for Israels enemiies or for Cur808.
Arab Jews who were persecuted by the states in the region get zero
Here is a good reason for Israel now. Bathists ,Khomeni followers Bin Laden supporters are all murderous killers and can't be trusted to govern or protect their minorities Israelis need protection from them. Shame on them and their supporters in the west. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="cerulean808"]
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| That's absurd. I've always supported moves to address the injustices of colonisation in my country. A painful, slow process but necessary if my society wants to claim itself a just one. Some of these former colonies are doing better at addressing their history than others. Australia, a rich first world country, its indigenous population with worse statistics than most 3rd world countries. The likes of John Pilger bringing their plight and Australia's shame to public exposure. But Joo calls him a bigot, no doubt in his twisted logic thinks Pilger's reporting on the Australian aboriginal plight is, gasp, anti-american. |
John Pigler is a bigot not because of Austria but because of his word play games in the newspaper.
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Joo
I mean the end to the 'settlements', those armed fortresses constructed on occupied land, inhabited by 10000s of armed 'settlers'. The colonies virtually encircling Jerusalem. That project which only accelerated during 'peace negotiations'. |
and they would have been gone if Arafat took Clintons offer.
Both sides violated Oslo. by the way
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| And you keep going on about a wad of greenbacks being waved under Palestinian noses to get them to shut up and go away. You seriously believe a cynical ploy like that could fly? What price do you put on your national identity, your right to self determination? |
they should take the money.
They need a state but there has never been an independent Palestinian state in the history of the world. The idea of a Palestinian state for the msot part started in the 1960's.
Take the money and build a nice country in the west Bank and Gaza. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Unfortunately Palestine hasn't been able to do the same. |
And that goes double for the countries in the region they have traditionally relied on for support. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| It's right there in front of you, international law, indigenous rights... |
Don't dodge the question. What should happen to Israel? Do you agree with the Mullahs in Iran that it should be annihilated? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Unfortunately Palestine hasn't been able to do the same. |
And that goes double for the countries in the region they have traditionally relied on for support. |
There wouldn't be an Israel if they would have been able to do that. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: |
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hmm. Who's winning?
There are now 10.000 israeli troops in Lebanon.
So far in the conflict, 827 Lebanese, mostly civilians, have been killed, according to Lebanon Internal Security Forces.
The IDF says the Israeli death toll stands at 120, including 38 civilians.
The sources say more than 700 Israelis and 3,200 Lebanese have been wounded.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/09/mideast.main/index.html
support for hesbollah has increased in lebanon. Support for olmert has decreased in israel. Israel has so far been unable to stop the firing of rockets at its towns. But they hold an area of south Lebanon, which they are planning to double before the ceasefire goes into effect. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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the death toll on the Arab side would be hundreds of thousands......if the Israelis weren't such a civilized humane nation.
It's ironic that the Israelis care more for the lives of Arab civilians than do the Hezbollah...... who operate within civilian areas, allowing even children to be present when they launch missiles. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| the death toll on the Arab side would be hundreds of thousands......if the Israelis weren't such a civilized humane nation. |
Well, at least they haven't used any of their 200 PLUS NUCLEAR WARHEADS yet, have they? How's that for civilized?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=israel+nuclear+arsenal
Israel Suffers Highest 1-Day Toll Of War
By LAUREN FRAYER and SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writers
BEIRUT, Lebanon - More Israeli troops surged into southern Lebanon on Saturday, reaching the Litani River and engaging in some of the heaviest combat of the month long war just hours after the U.N. Security Council adopted a cease-fire plan.
Israel lost 19 soldiers � its highest one-day toll. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Israel Suffers Highest 1-Day Toll Of War
By LAUREN FRAYER and SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writers |
I'm sure you're chuffed at the news. Any figures on hesbollah casualties? oh, I forgot, geurilla fighters and civilians can't be identifiably separated in the field.
The Lebanese propaganda records all casualties as civilian. How many were hesbollah is anybody's guess. Unlike they IDF they don't release accurate reports. last i heard, the Lebanese defence ministry had revised the hesbollah death toll from 40 down to 1.
How many israeli civilians have hesbollah randomly targetted with their rockets? |
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