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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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GoshiwonGuy
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
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 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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If a woman I dated had a problem with me trying to save money in a manner as simple as presenting a piece of paper (i.e. a coupon) I'd think I have a problem on my hands.
How shallow can you get? Does it put her out somehow?
I just don't get this guy/girl thing anymore. Not that I ever really cared what most women thought...so maybe I didn't really have that good of a foundation. 
GG
Last edited by GoshiwonGuy on Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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EdInstead
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| doggyji wrote: |
| EdInstead wrote: |
In more similar news. It's a hot issue on Korean websites these days:
Women like Kim Ok Bin. Koreans, they call them Dweng-jan-yo, or "People only interested in good-looking and rich guys for marriage (marrying up)."
Apparently, she made the comment that, when on a date, if they are at Starbucks and the guy uses a discount card, she totally loses interest. She feels that if a guy tries so hard to save a buck, then she's not interested in him, because he shouldn't care what the cost is when he takes her out.
This ignited a firestorm of discussion on Korean websites recently, with men and women fighting over both sides of the issue. There is a lot of concern about these "princess" types who spend every dime they can get on plastic surgery, clothes, etc., for the one sole intention of catching the richest guy possible. Sounds like old hat to me, but apparently, it's getting so bad that netizens are coining new words based on it. |
I made a thread about this matter which quickly died with zero response.  Anyway, here it is again.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=63366 |
This was a great quote from that article:
"Prof. Kim Jeong-un of Myongji University�s Department of Leisure Management diagnoses the problem as stemming from the realities of youth unemployment and associated stresses. "It�s common for people who are unhappy to construct an imaginary enemy,� Kim says. �Once an object has been identified, a consensus starts to crystallize and mass rage, hostility and illogicality are born.""
Doesn't that explain the hostility of many young Korean people against other countries of the world? One in particular? |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| EdInstead wrote: |
| Doesn't that explain the hostility of many young Korean people against other countries of the world? One in particular? |
Two, Ed. Two in particular, and that's precisely what I thought when I read that line. |
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EdInstead
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| EdInstead wrote: |
| Doesn't that explain the hostility of many young Korean people against other countries of the world? One in particular? |
Two, Ed. Two in particular, and that's precisely what I thought when I read that line. |
Wow, it's been so long since the world cup ended, I thought I'd never hear about Ghana and the Swiss again for at least another 3 to 4 years! What two did you mean? |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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[quote="GoshiwonGuy"]
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| My wife is actually from Isaan (i.e. Northeast Thailand), this is where I lived and this is where probably most of the prostitutes in Thailand come from. |
really? how did you meet?
..Isaan, a poverty stricken area where people are denied passports, rights, suffer gender and ethnic inequalities and are forced into prostitution.
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| So I don't need to believe the tripe that some guy on a Korean board spouts, or buy the *beep* that NGO's and the western media cite to justify their continued funding or sell papers and advertising to a gullible and easily 'inflamed' western public... |
Really? so your wife has assured you that everything is fine and dandy in Isaan, and that the exploitation of disadvantaged young women to service a tourist sex industry doesn't exist?
So you deny that a huge human tafficking problem exists in Thailand, or that the country has a long standing massively exploitative sex industry that has ruined the lives of its young women to cater in part to foreign tourists?
| Quote: |
| If anyone wants to know what Thailand is about, don't listen to this joker Julius; the first place you should hit is www.ajarnforum.net |
Wow. So instead of facing up to reality you'd rather take in the views of 100 sex tourists in Thailand all for the same reason. Who assuage eachothers guilt, pat eachother on the backs and invent numerous reasons to excuse and justify their exploitation. Let me guess: you're going to accept the chatboards of [url]hornysextourist.com[/url] over the following credible sources including the UN, BBC, Human rights watch, etc etc etc.
Anti-trafficking in Thailand web portal.
http://www.tipinasia.info/TH/index.php?l=en
Thailand: modern day slavery
http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Thailand.htm
Thailand is a source, transit and destination country for trafficking in persons, including children, for both labor and commercial sexual exploitation. Trafficking is exacerbated by sex tourism.
-US Dept of labor: http://www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/tda2004/thailand.htm
I'm just amazed at how western guys forget about what is right the moment they set foot in male dominated Asia, and Thailand in particular. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Time to call you on your bullcrap, son. For a start, if you read any of the literature pertaining to the farang end of the sex industry, you would know that debt/bondage style prostitution rarely exists in that sector. I suggest you start with Eric Cohen, Thai Tourism and especially focus on the case study he did whilst living down the lower end of Sukhumvit amongst bar girls. Secondly, Guns Girls Gambling and Ganja comes to much the same conclusion and Pasuk Pongpaichit is not known for her sympathetic views of western men.
Secondly, your misreading of the whole power axis with regard to bargirls and clients only highlights your extreme ignorance of the whole issue. For example, having lived and worked on Ko Samui some years ago, I know, as many others do, that there are a great number of bar girls 'playing' a number of boyfriends, recieving money from around the world from poor inexperienced or lovelorn saps who don't realise that little Ning has another 2-3 suckers doing the same thing. The girls knowledge of the scene, culture and language give them an advantage over the western tourists they service who generally spend a week or two in the kingdom. Far from your uninformed and guilt ridden narrative, which buy the way sounds like it was dredged up from the feminist bowels of some second rate liberal arts school, the dynamics of power in these relationships are often tilted in favour of the female.
Thirdly, you paint a picture of Isaan that is littered with mistruths. Did you know, for example, Isaan is the most highly populated of the four regions and most recent Thai elections are fought and won there. I was there for the 95 poll and Khun Banharn and his cronies spent more time in my then-GFs village than in other regions. Of course the region is less economically developed, suffers from higher unemployment and lower wages, but the Savanahpoom economic miracle kicked off by Chatachai Choonhaven has given Isaan people great opportunities to earn money in the cities. Some choose to be bargirls or boys, but for each one of those who do, there are another ten who don't and opt for lower pay and harder work in tourism and or factories. You are getting your facts mixed up with Hill Tribe Peoples who get the real rough end of the pineapple, being denied citizenship and educational rights, as well as their time honored economic role of opium production.
In all you paint a very biased and uninformed picture of the whole issue. It reeks of someone who has spent a few weeks between the Islands and Khao Sahn Rd. You also create some interesting straw men, dissing the likes of Ajarn as just another mongering site (which it most certainly is not) rather than giving it credit for being a wealth of expat knowledge, written by people who unlike yourself live and work in Thailand. Finally, your comments regarding western men married to SE Asian women, the assumption that most if not all are poor downtrodden hookers that makes me dearly wish to suspend my libertarian tendencies and ensure the likes of you are never issued a travel doccument. |
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GoshiwonGuy
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Julius wrote:
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| really? how did you meet? |
I met my wife in Chiang Mai at the Riverside Restaurant. I hope that's okay with you. 
| Quote: |
| ..Isaan, a poverty stricken area where people are denied passports, rights, suffer gender and ethnic inequalities and are forced into prostitution. |
Most of Isaan is not poverty stricken by a Thai definition of the word, Thais are not denied Passports or 'rights'...and the rest of it is nonsense.
Most women from Isaan are not 'forced' into prostitution in any sense of the word.
| Quote: |
| ...and that the exploitation of disadvantaged young women to service a tourist sex industry doesn't exist? |
No it doesn't.
| Quote: |
| So you deny that a huge human tafficking problem exists in Thailand, or that the country has a long standing massively exploitative sex industry that has ruined the lives of its young women to cater in part to foreign tourists? |
It's a Thai problem that has very little to do with foreigners.
| Quote: |
| Wow. So instead of facing up to reality... |
You don't know what the reality of the situation is. You just believe what you've been fed.
You are laughably uninformed.
Any Thai 'veteran' with any sense has a bead on you from a mile away. There are millions of you lemmings lined up to spout about which you know nothing about...
| Quote: |
| you'd rather take in the views of 100 sex tourists in Thailand all for the same reason. Who assuage eachothers guilt, pat eachother on the backs and invent numerous reasons to excuse and justify their exploitation. Let me guess: you're going to accept the chatboards of [url]hornysextourist.com...[/url] |
What nonsense.
| Quote: |
| over the following credible sources including the UN, BBC, Human rights watch, etc etc etc. |
How credible are they if what they say is at odds with the truth of the matter?
What does any of this have to do with westerners again?
| Quote: |
| I'm just amazed at how western guys forget about what is right the moment they set foot in male dominated Asia, and Thailand in particular. |
You're joking.
Or did someone tell you that paying a women for sex is wrong?
I didn't realise that.
I always thought if a woman wanted to sell her *beep*, and a man wanted to pay for it...then it was fine.
I think I just learned something new today.
Thank you, Julius...
GG
PS. Why don't you just admit you know jack about Thailand? The more you speak the more your ignorance on almost every level shines though. Thanks for the laughs... |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
Time to call you on your bullcrap, son. For a start, if you read any of the literature pertaining to the farang end of the sex industry, you would know that debt/bondage style prostitution rarely exists in that sector. I suggest you start with Eric Cohen, Thai Tourism and especially focus on the case study he did whilst living down the lower end of Sukhumvit amongst bar girls. Secondly, Guns Girls Gambling and Ganja comes to much the same conclusion and Pasuk Pongpaichit is not known for her sympathetic views of western men.
Secondly, your misreading of the whole power axis with regard to bargirls and clients only highlights your extreme ignorance of the whole issue. For example, having lived and worked on Ko Samui some years ago, I know, as many others do, that there are a great number of bar girls 'playing' a number of boyfriends, recieving money from around the world from poor inexperienced or lovelorn saps who don't realise that little Ning has another 2-3 suckers doing the same thing. The girls knowledge of the scene, culture and language give them an advantage over the western tourists they service who generally spend a week or two in the kingdom. Far from your uninformed and guilt ridden narrative, which buy the way sounds like it was dredged up from the feminist bowels of some second rate liberal arts school, the dynamics of power in these relationships are often tilted in favour of the female.
Thirdly, you paint a picture of Isaan that is littered with mistruths. Did you know, for example, Isaan is the most highly populated of the four regions and most recent Thai elections are fought and won there. I was there for the 95 poll and Khun Banharn and his cronies spent more time in my then-GFs village than in other regions. Of course the region is less economically developed, suffers from higher unemployment and lower wages, but the Savanahpoom economic miracle kicked off by Chatachai Choonhaven has given Isaan people great opportunities to earn money in the cities. Some choose to be bargirls or boys, but for each one of those who do, there are another ten who don't and opt for lower pay and harder work in tourism and or factories. You are getting your facts mixed up with Hill Tribe Peoples who get the real rough end of the pineapple, being denied citizenship and educational rights, as well as their time honored economic role of opium production.
In all you paint a very biased and uninformed picture of the whole issue. It reeks of someone who has spent a few weeks between the Islands and Khao Sahn Rd. You also create some interesting straw men, dissing the likes of Ajarn as just another mongering site (which it most certainly is not) rather than giving it credit for being a wealth of expat knowledge, written by people who unlike yourself live and work in Thailand. Finally, your comments regarding western men married to SE Asian women, the assumption that most if not all are poor downtrodden hookers that makes me dearly wish to suspend my libertarian tendencies and ensure the likes of you are never issued a travel doccument. |
More apologia from a dedicated (and proud!) HIV vector. |
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numazawa
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
More apologia from a dedicated (and proud!) HIV vector. |
Followed by more neuralgia from a dedicated (and proud!) PC vector.  |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| GoshiwonGuy wrote: |
If a woman I dated had a problem with me trying to save money in a manner as simple as presenting a piece of paper (i.e. a coupon) I'd think I have a problem on my hands.
How shallow can you get? Does it put her out somehow?
I just don't get this guy/girl thing anymore. Not that I ever really cared what most women thought...so maybe I didn't really have that good of a foundation.
GG |
Most women don't compartmentalize. They see everything as part of a continuum. A man on a first date should be showing his best, most generous side. If he's going to try and save 50 cents on a first date, many women interpret that as a man who might not be fully into sharing. Women value mates who share their time, their thoughts, etc. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| GoshiwonGuy wrote: |
| My wife is actually from Isaan (i.e. Northeast Thailand), this is where I lived and this is where probably most of the prostitutes in Thailand come from. |
| Julius wrote: |
| really? how did you meet? |
Julius, totally uncalled for and highly presumptuous. One of my co-workers met his Thai wife, 10 years his junior, a wonderful lady, at a medical conference. She's an educated woman and makes more money than him. Another married a simple shop girl, as happens at home a thousand times a day. It's insulting you'd assume any western man married to a foreign woman involves a client/service power/slave relationship and yeah I'd say you need to lay off some of the extreme feminist literature - it can be just as simplistic and uninformed as the worst misogyinist rantings, as you'd know if you've ever read Goddess diatribes and such. And you know, if a man does marry an ex-hooker, so what? They're worthy people too and if it works out for the couple, if he gets her off the street and helps her out, if she makes him happy, great. Rather than just moralize from afar I'd like to see foreign feminists fighting at ground level for prostitutes' (male and female) collective rights, health care, the illegalization of pimping and debt bondage, STD screening/treatment, education opportunities, childcare, etc.
That said, I think the truth as usual probably lies in between the polarity of opinion here and I'd certainly trust the BBC and UN Human Rights Commission on most issues. Yes, some women are exploited there and I don't doubt human trafficking exists in many countries, even in the US or here (talk to a Russian bargirl or Indonesian dye worker).
There have been horrible cases in Thailand not that long ago such as that of some brothel girls (a brothel in country for Thai men, if that matters) actually chained to their beds who were burned alive during a fire. I mean God-damn, it just doesn't get much worse than that. But at the same time yes, plenty of other women seem to get into 'the trade' for extra spending money, not basic survival, as your quote from the girl who used her earnings to buy her mom a fancy new TV (not food or medicine) illustrates. Lots of others seem to buy expensive new clothes or the latest model cell phone, or save for a downpayment on a nicer apartment/house with their earnings, just like any working person. These girls know exactly what they're doing, are free to quit or refuse a rude client any time they really wish, and are far from starvation-level poverty. Some of them probably make as much or even more than some of their foreign clients. So if they choose to go with an older or different-skinned man that's their business, none of mine. Besides, a lot of ordinary girls there really just seem to honestly dig foreign guys. That's not wishful thinking, that's a fact. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| jaganath69 wrote: |
Time to call you on your bullcrap, son. For a start, if you read any of the literature pertaining to the farang end of the sex industry, you would know that debt/bondage style prostitution rarely exists in that sector. I suggest you start with Eric Cohen, Thai Tourism and especially focus on the case study he did whilst living down the lower end of Sukhumvit amongst bar girls. Secondly, Guns Girls Gambling and Ganja comes to much the same conclusion and Pasuk Pongpaichit is not known for her sympathetic views of western men.
Secondly, your misreading of the whole power axis with regard to bargirls and clients only highlights your extreme ignorance of the whole issue. For example, having lived and worked on Ko Samui some years ago, I know, as many others do, that there are a great number of bar girls 'playing' a number of boyfriends, recieving money from around the world from poor inexperienced or lovelorn saps who don't realise that little Ning has another 2-3 suckers doing the same thing. The girls knowledge of the scene, culture and language give them an advantage over the western tourists they service who generally spend a week or two in the kingdom. Far from your uninformed and guilt ridden narrative, which buy the way sounds like it was dredged up from the feminist bowels of some second rate liberal arts school, the dynamics of power in these relationships are often tilted in favour of the female.
Thirdly, you paint a picture of Isaan that is littered with mistruths. Did you know, for example, Isaan is the most highly populated of the four regions and most recent Thai elections are fought and won there. I was there for the 95 poll and Khun Banharn and his cronies spent more time in my then-GFs village than in other regions. Of course the region is less economically developed, suffers from higher unemployment and lower wages, but the Savanahpoom economic miracle kicked off by Chatachai Choonhaven has given Isaan people great opportunities to earn money in the cities. Some choose to be bargirls or boys, but for each one of those who do, there are another ten who don't and opt for lower pay and harder work in tourism and or factories. You are getting your facts mixed up with Hill Tribe Peoples who get the real rough end of the pineapple, being denied citizenship and educational rights, as well as their time honored economic role of opium production.
In all you paint a very biased and uninformed picture of the whole issue. It reeks of someone who has spent a few weeks between the Islands and Khao Sahn Rd. You also create some interesting straw men, dissing the likes of Ajarn as just another mongering site (which it most certainly is not) rather than giving it credit for being a wealth of expat knowledge, written by people who unlike yourself live and work in Thailand. Finally, your comments regarding western men married to SE Asian women, the assumption that most if not all are poor downtrodden hookers that makes me dearly wish to suspend my libertarian tendencies and ensure the likes of you are never issued a travel doccument. |
More apologia from a dedicated (and proud!) HIV vector. |
Another one liner from a moron who knows nothing about the subject and must resort to base insults to make his non-point. Seriously, that loose flapped c#nt of a mother of your's should have opted for a government funded abortion instead of carrying your worthless arse to term. How's that for a comeback? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1827718,00.html |
Of course the real screamer is "We're businessmen,' says Leroy proudly. 'We sell ganja, coke and good lovin'."
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="GoshiwonGuy"]
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| ...and that the exploitation of disadvantaged young women to service a tourist sex industry doesn't exist? |
No it doesn't. |
Maybe you should listen to what the victims themselves have to say. Tough call but i'll take their word over yours.
"I found myself dancing at a club at the age of 11... I have had different kinds of customers, foreigners and Filipinos. I tried suicide but it didn't work so I turned to drugs. I want to die before my next birthday."
" At least one-third of Thai prostitutes are under the age of 18, and most adult prostitutes started when they were only children."
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~haneydaw/twwh/traf.html
"It's a terrible situation," Mylee told WorldNetDaily. "It seems at times as though there isn't a single decent man left in the world. I thought that men were supposed to protect women and children, not exploit them.
People are bought and sold � children, too," Mylee said over a meal.
I worry about AIDS.
I am but one brick in that long, unbroken wall of female exploitation and misery."
Men want certain types of skin color, a compliant attitude. Submission and curves. But there aren't really any reasons anymore. There are only tears."
"Make no mistake. This is human slavery. The pimps are animals, but they are smart. The whole operation � at least what I can see of it � is run with a kind of military-style precision that's scarcely believable," de Boer said.
"Some of the women are just outright kidnapped. Some are sold off by their parents and relatives. Some are orphans. The lucky ones will find work on farms and perhaps in factories. Most of them � especially the pretty ones � will be trapped in the sex trade. It is a known fact that the most light-skinned and exotic of these girls will be shipped as far away as Tokyo and Cape Town."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26296
| Quote: |
| It's a Thai problem that has very little to do with foreigners. |
Keep sticking your head in the sand.
"Thailand has an extremely large and profitable sex industry, both child and adult. An estimate in 1993 placed the earnings of the Thai sex industry at $1.5 billion anually. Businessmen and sexual tourists from all over the world flock to Thailand specifically for sexual vacations. Much of this sexual tourism is, unfortunately, undertaken by pedophiles seeking sex with children."
EPCAT estimated, in the early 1990s, that there were 200,000 child sex "workers" in Thailand.
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1176992
| Quote: |
| You are laughably uninformed. |
Its laughable, and disturbing that you choose not to face up to something so well documented.
| Quote: |
| Any Thai 'veteran' with any sense has a bead on you from a mile away. There are millions of you lemmings lined up to spout about which you know nothing about... |
Thai veterans are self-serving lemmings living in denial so as to continue their loser lifesyle, perpetuating an industry reliant on gender inequalities, poverty and abuse. Once again i think I'll trust the word of Thai women involved over a rag-tag assemblage of the dross of western humanity.
| Quote: |
| What does any of this have to do with westerners again? |
You are like someone eating whale meat who says hes not responsible for whaling. Your mind is a twisted train of conscience-sidestepping thought processes, so as to be able to look at yourself in the mirror everyday, all wrapped up in a protective arrogant exterior.
| Quote: |
Or did someone tell you that paying a women for sex is wrong?
I didn't realise that. |
Of course its wrong, because she has no other option, and you ignore the whole set of oppressive corrupt societal system that forces her to solicit someone, anyone, to survive.
Some do "willingly" enter it, out of a sheer lack of choices. Do you think 2 million compliant hookers exist because its their prefferred, chosen lifestyle? they are left with no option in a country under severe degradation from corruption and economic inequality. A system that you help to keep in place by providing the market and reason for its existence. Do you really believe entire generations of a country's women are best used up, forced and coerced into prostitution? At the very least , acknowledge that the casual sex tourist is playing his small part in a sad web of corruption that traps, enslaves and degrades women.
Quote zulu
| Quote: |
| Julius, totally uncalled for and highly presumptuous. |
How can a simple question asked of most couples in everyday social circumstances cause offence?
Quote Goshiwon guy
| Quote: |
| Not that I ever really cared what most women thought |
That is 100% obvious.
What i'm saying is..to anyone cruising into SE Asia to exploit the poor....try getting in touch with your conscience and humanity instead. |
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