Korean Job Discussion Forums

[tomato]

You naughty boy, don't you know that women are maya-devi's?

[Rteacher]

I've been victimized by maya more times than I care to remember...

Actually maya devi's service to Krishna is to test devotees devotion. Great devotees are never distracted from their absorption in Krishna consciousness - even if maya (illusion) appears in the form of a voluptuous naked hooker offering herself (for free...)

Our choice at every juncture is to focus either on pleasing our own material senses or on pleasing God's transcendental senses ...

Since we're all part of the Complete Whole Spirit (who is also expanded within us) whenever we sincerely try to please God we feel some spiritual happiness.

I managed to follow regulative principles in that spirit very strictly for over eleven years (avoiding materialistic association to the extent of not even watching TV or listening to mundane music) but I got a little lax and eventually fell to a lower standard of devotional service.

My plan is to gradually become more spiritually fit as I grow older (and hope that I can somehow remember Krishna when my time is up ...)

In the meantime, I let myself have some decent amount of sense gratification without getting carried away by the illusion that I can really lord it over and ultimately enjoy material nature.

[ED209]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/27/david-attenborough-science

[Rteacher]

God can be conceived of as the Supreme Father of all living entities.

No father wants to see his children suffer, but if they act ignorantly they will end up suffering for their actions - at some point (sometimes delayed till next life).

As long as we're situated in the spiritual universes - where we belong - there is no question of suffering. No one suffers at all in the spiritual world - which comprises three-forths the total creation.

God desires us to stay in the eternal spiritual abode , but if we foolishly defy God's will by desiring to try to enjoy separately, he reluctantly let's us do so until we've had our fill.

Unfortunately, what we get in the material world is mostly suffering - till we learn that we can never be really happy here, we don't really belong here, and we should really get the hell out of here and go back home.

For those souls who are at all receptive to merciful Divine benediction (in other words, anyone who isn't a hardcore empiricist/atheist type) the Supreme Father has given all sorts of lifelines to help us get out of this world of suffering and back to never-ending good times in the Spiritual Sky.

How hard is it to chant Holy Names? Even poor villagers in Africa can do it. Even illiterates can do it.

Lord Chaitanya's sankirtana movement will flood the entire material world with ecstatic love of God.

That the empiricists can't measure such Divine mercy is their problem.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/sri_caitanya_mahaprabhu.htm
http://www.harekrishna.com/col/books/clas/cc/ff.html

[Underwaterbob]

[some waygug-in]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html


A giant hologram, hmm imagine that.

Rolling up the sky like a scroll may not be such a stange thing after all.

[Rteacher]

The Vedic version is that we are made to enjoy forever, but the material world is especially meant to be a place of suffering - and practically all the evidence supports that view.

Even if one thinks he or she has found true love and real happiness, every material relationship ends in disapointment or frustration due to death or separation, and obviously everyone suffers some disease and dies.

Science has made no significant progress in ultimately stopping disease and/or death, and only true believers have faith that they ever will conquer all disease and death (regardless of how many cloned body parts they harvest...)

By the way, the late devotee scientist, Richard L. Thompson (aka Sadaputa das) wrote a book based on the theory that this world is holographic virtual reality ...
www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0963530909/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

Well, President Obama recently praised ISKCON Bangalore's Akshaya Patra program of serving (vegetarian) meals to nearly a million underprivileged kids at 5,600 schools in India as an inspirational example of what can be done to help make the world a better place.

"It has an imaginative approach that has the potential to serve as a model for other countries," Mr Obama said.

http://news.iskcon.com/node/1511/2008-12-06/obama_praises_akshaya_patra_its_noble_work

http://www.bangalorebest.com/discoverbangalore/sightseeing/religion/temples/iskconcm.asp

"Food for Life Global" is another Hare Krishna food relief program that has reportedly served over 700,000,000 vegetarian meals to the needy around the world since 1974.
http://www.ffl.org/ffl_view_project.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AaFpTTkhQs

"Food for Life Vrindavana" (India) recently won the 8th Annual Asian Achievers Award as "Charity of the Year" ...
http://news.iskcon.com/node/1672

Are you sure you don't mean that atheists and supporters of slaughterhouse/meat and liquor culture are blights on humanity?

[tomato]

That's wonderful. I am glad that the Hare Krishnas are doing some good.
I thought all the money which the followers raise was used to send its current leaders on vacation trips to the Bahamas.

I have one question, though:
From the very beginning, you have been attacking the rest of us as materialists.
But the very fact that you came to Korea from a foreign country proves that you have taken advantage of modern transportation.
And the very fact that you send messages on the Internet proves that you either have a computer or take advantage of access to a computer.
How is your lifestyle any less materialistic than ours?

[Rteacher]

"Spiritual" means "in relation to God" - the Supreme Spirit.

"Materialist" refers to a person who does not see - and use - things in relation to God.

When material things are used in devotional service - according to our constitutional relationship to God - they have in effect become "spiritualized".

Regarding me personally, I have never claimed to be a spiritual master or advanced devotee, and I've obviously made some materialistic posts on topics related to sports, music, and other types of entertainment.

[Eedoryeong]

mindmetoo, the evolution/creationism debate often side-steps the point of the book of Genesis, which I'd suggest is not merely an exercise in simplifying origin answers (to be made digestible to wandering desert nomads who didn't even have numbers sufficient to measure the amounts of time involved in what would have been the actual answers) but also an exercise in diverting marginally-relevant (to the purpose of the book) origin questions back to spiritual relationship questions, which would involve some abbreviation and which seems a much more reasonable point for the book's creation.

I'm all over gunning down creationist attempts to block the teaching of evolution in schools. Having studied Robert E. Lee's Inhert The Wind in elementary school, and the circumstances that inspired the play, I find myself shocked that in this age these education preservation efforts are still necessary. But by the same turn I'd have to say that if I were writing out a cheque for an organization dedicated to that effort, I'd have to write out only a small donation if you were the prez, because I think dogmatics like yourself, while doing good work against the efforts of creationists, run the risk of narrowing your own concept of the collective contribution to human knowledge too - to the point that you begin to see no place for works like the book of Genesis - a kind of myopic vision all its own, also in need of redress. Can religiosity equal religion too? In your opening post 'evolution is not a religion', you don't specify that you were only talking about formal religions.

If past lives exist, you may have been comfortable as a heretic-burner, too. If you disagree, perhaps you should be proposing a new kind of debate that would take your efforts in a new direction. Here's a suggestion topic: should we destroy all institutions where theology is taught, and burn all their contents?

Admittedly, this reply is only marginally about your thread, but given the current western social climate, I'm calling you out to "thin the herd" of your peripheral arguments, given the suggestions of many of your would-be peers.

[tomato]

Thank you, Rteacher, I think I understand you now.
Please read my examples and see if I use those two words correctly:

Question: When Darwin was travelling on the Beagle, he noticed that each of the Galapagos Islands was populated by finches with a beak of a different shape which served a different purpose. Why do you suppose the Galapagos finches differed in this respect?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

God created each finch variety exactly the way they are now and exactly where they are now. In his infinite wisdom, God recognized their needs and met their needs. Wasn't that nice of God!

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Most of us on this thread know what Darwin said about that, so I won't go over it again. For some reason, Creationist writers seldom address this question. Could it be because they never heard of it? Or could it be because they don't want their Creationist readers to hear of it?

Question: Why are bananas so handy? A banana fits perfectly in one hand, and you can peel it with the other hand.

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

Because God custom-made bananas just for us. Kirk Cameron says it better than I can.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Shortly after I first saw that video, I tried to eat a crab. For all my hard work in pulling off the shell, I got very little meat out of it. I entered a message on this forum, suggesting that if God were so all-loving and all-wise, he would have made crabs easy for us to eat, also.

Someone wrote back, saying no, crabs aren't kosher. So I guess Kirk Cameron got me.

I wonder which the Primate Order developed first--hands which could hold bananas, or ability to derive nutrition from bananas.

I have also wondered what would happen if illegal drugs were available to us from prehistoric times. We might have developed a distaste for illegal drugs, or we might have developed a way of deriving nutrition therefrom.

Question: Why do we hit tables, gnash our teeth, or stamp our feet when we are angry? That doesn't hurt our adversaries one bit.

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

The Devil did it. Whenever the topic is favorable, God did it. Whenever the topic is unfavorable, the Devil did it.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Because we are imagining ourselves trapping our prey in our fangs and trapping our prey in our claws. We lost our fangs and our claws millions of years ago, but our inner brains don't know that. We can buy all the food we need at E-Mart, but our inner brains don't know that either.

Question: What is parental love?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

Like I say, whenever the topic is favorable, God did it. It is called "love" when an adult human is affectionate and protective toward a juvenile, but it is called "instinct" when a adult animal is affectionate and protective toward a juvenile,

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

When we hug people, especially children, we are protecting them from enemies and predators who are trying to pry them from us. When we stroke a person's skin, especially a child's skin, we are inspecting the fur for lice. When we kiss people, especially children, we are chewing food for a baby and transferring that food to the baby's mouth.

Like most human drives which we hastily attribute to God or Satan, these drives make perfect sense when we examine our prehistoric past.

Question: What is repartee? Why do adults, especially adult males, roughhouse with children? More specifically, why does Tomato chase and tickle children who call him 토마토?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

I once posed this question to a Creationist, and he said, "Horseplay is horseplay." When the worst comes to the worst, you can always make a tautology.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Teasing is a rehearsal for an actual confrontation with an enemy or predator. Throughout prehistory, it has been a man's job to toughen children up for such a purpose. Of course, physical fitness will do us little good if the North Koreans drop a bomb on us, but our inner brains don't know about nuclear warfare.

Question: Why do mommies and daddies impose music lessons on children who don't want music lessons? They will usually say, "I wanted music lessons when I was a child." What does that have to do with what the child wants?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

The Devil did it. Or, if your grievance is with the child who doesn't want music lessons, the Devil did THAT!

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

I am not knocking such parents. When I was a child, I wanted foreign language instruction, and that is one reason that I came here, expecting my students to be just as eager to receive foreign language instruction. Imagine my surprise the first time I saw my students race out the door at fifty minutes after.

There is an evolutionary advantage to wanting our offspring to be better off than we were. Throughout prehistory, there was not as much difference between individual and needs because our wants and needs were more basic.

Question: Why do public school teachers have so much trouble getting children to cooperate?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

Because children are lazy, evil, and don't want to learn. It all started when Eve took a bite out of the apple.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

If children were lazy, evil, and didn't want to learn, they wouldn't volunteer for athletic teams, music ensembles, and Scout troops. Those are gregarious and energetic settings. Throughout prehistory, there has been an evolutionary advantage to being energetic and gregarious. At school, on the other hand, children in school are forced to sit still all day and work by themselves.

Unfortunately, teachers and administrators can't see this. If more teachers and administrators were Evolutionists, this whole problem would be solved.

Question: What is conjugal love?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

How many times do I have to tell you, God did it! Haven't you ever seen one of those ceremonies in which the couple marches in to the tune of Wagner and marches out to the tune of Mendelssohn? That's called "holy matrimony"!

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Monogamy is nothing uniquely human. Those species which have the longest childhood and the highest susceptibility to venereal disease are the species which tend toward monogamy. Our species has both traits. In fact, our species has the longest childhood of all the species.

Question: What is the relation between fingers and counting?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

This whole notion of homology is nonsense. God gave seals flippers to swim with. God gave birds wings to fly with. God gave land animals legs to walk on.

Last but not least, God gave humans fingers to count on. God, in his infinite wisdom, knew that we would someday want to develop a mathematical system, so he equipped us for that purpose.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

We count because we first saw that we had fingers, so we used them for that purpose.

It seems to me that if an omniscient creator had endowed us with fingers to count on, he would have given us six fingers on each hand instead of only five; then we would have a system based on 12 instead of 10. 12 would be easier to work with, since it is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 12, whereas 10 is only divisible by 1, 2, 5, and 10.

But who am I to question a religious teaching? If I question Prabhupada, I am "in my own mind." If I question Reverend Moon, I am the victim of "partial knowledge."

Question: Why is there so much prejudice in the world? Why do Koreans stare at us? Why do Koreans teach their children that White people have limited brain capacity? Why do 외국인's go on Dave's ESL Cafe and complain about their stupid English students, Koreans bragging about four seasons, and sweet corn on pizza?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

Like I told you once already, the Devil did it. No, I take that back. If you're a Hindu, either Maya or Kali did it. If you're a Christian Scientist, Mortal Mind did it. It doesn't matter what we call our scapegoat, so long as we keep it nice and simple.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Because the world used to be sparsely populated. Every tribe could stick to itself and still leave plenty of space.

Because the Industrial Revolution took place only recently. Nobody imported and nobody exported.

Because there were no foreign language textbooks, cassettes, or videos. If someone who looked different from you came up to you and said something nonsensical like "안녕 하세요,� you wouldn't know WHAT that meant. The safest assumption is that it meant "I'm going to eat you alive."

Today, we have foreign language materials, we have anthropology classes, and we do everything possible to educate ourselves on the outer brain level. But our inner brains are still millions of years behind the times.

Question: Why is it so difficult to be diplomatic in an intellectual disagreement? Case in point: why are Mindmetoo and Rteacher so hateful to each other?

Here is a spiritual answer ▶▶▶▶

Haven't I told you umpteen times already, religion provides a convenient catchall for questions like this. Just blame it all on the scapegoat of your religious leader's choice and your thinking has been done for you.

Here is a materialistic answer ▶▶▶▶

Intellectual disagreement is something new. For millions of years, there were no Republicans and Democrats or Creationists and Evolutionists. Any disagreement was with an enemy or predator.

Whenever we see something new, we mistake it for something old. Birds mistake telephone wires for tree branches, dogs mistake fire hydrants for trees, and Mindmetoo and Rteacher mistake each other for enemies and predators.

[luvnpeas]