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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
Evolutionary theory is not a religion. It is not an alternative to spirituality. It is not a faith. You are rejecting it based solely on your opinion then accusing it's supporters of being closed minded, non-spiritual or pessimistic. |
So what do you call it then?
!
| Quote: |
| The only thing that hurts is your ignorance. |
You call me stupid? Hahhah that�s fresh! Coming from someone who can�t prove squat !
Nice try!
So what exactly are you debating then?
Because I certainly haven�t seen any discussions on evolution...
All I have seen is you attacking Christian�s first chance you get!
Go back months and months on these debates,how much of it is on evolution? NOT TO MUCH it�s all about god and no god! And all the little things in between! You know it! And I know it.
I say its important to know the beginning of evolution! You say we don�t have to know..
You can�t discuss evolution any more than we can discuss Christianity
We are at a stale mate! we are all the last question!
The world is JUST waiting for the answers! Humans are trying different alternatives, we are all searching, and in the mean time we discuss topics with no conclusion for fun!
Fact is we will never know! It will become a personal faith to what you want to believe.
| Quote: |
No one in this "debate" has rejected the possibility of a god. Who here has flat out said "there is no god"? You are putting words in our mouths to suit your arguments. |
Are you not an atheist?
| ernie wrote: |
worst debate ever.
i feel like an idiot for even contributing to this argument, about 6 pages back there, somewhere... |
it�s the worse debate ever because its an impossible debate to have.
Instead of leaving remarks why not ask something!
You guys are not sounding like Atheists but more like Agnostics! Perhaps you really need to look deep within yourselves and ask yourselves what it is you truly believe[/quote] |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
Evolutionary theory is not a religion. It is not an alternative to spirituality. It is not a faith. You are rejecting it based solely on your opinion then accusing it's supporters of being closed minded, non-spiritual or pessimistic. |
So what do you call it then?
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I call it evolutionary theory or evolutionary biology. So do you.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
!
| Quote: |
| The only thing that hurts is your ignorance. |
You call me stupid? Hahhah that�s fresh! Coming from someone who can�t prove squat !
Nice try!
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Your point? You can't prove "squat" either. At least when "squat" is the meaning or origins or life which it so often proves to be when "debating" with you.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
So what exactly are you debating then?
Because I certainly haven�t seen any discussions on evolution...
All I have seen is you attacking Christian�s first chance you get!
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Look at Trinitarian's list of questions. Look at half of your list of questions. Evolutionary theory is being attacked here just as much as Christianity. Find an example of me attacking a Christian first chance I got. Go on, find one.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
Go back months and months on these debates,how much of it is on evolution? NOT TO MUCH it�s all about god and no god! And all the little things in between! You know it! And I know it. |
Is it? Admittedly I joined the debate later (page 350 or so) but I have never once argued for or against the existence of a god on these threads.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
I say its important to know the beginning of evolution! You say we don�t have to know..
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I have never once said we don't have to know our origins. Evolutionary theory still works whether we know or not.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
You can�t discuss evolution any more than we can discuss Christianity
We are at a stale mate! we are all the last question!
The world is JUST waiting for the answers! Humans are trying different alternatives, we are all searching, and in the mean time we discuss topics with no conclusion for fun!
Fact is we will never know! It will become a personal faith to what you want to believe. |
We'll never know eh? That's pretty pessimistic.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
No one in this "debate" has rejected the possibility of a god. Who here has flat out said "there is no god"? You are putting words in our mouths to suit your arguments. |
Are you not an atheist?
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Have I ever said I was an athiest? What makes you assume I'm an athiest? I've been one of the biggest advocates of creationism and evolution being able to co-exist on these threads. You've done little but tell everyone they're wrong.
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| ernie wrote: |
worst debate ever.
i feel like an idiot for even contributing to this argument, about 6 pages back there, somewhere... |
it�s the worse debate ever because its an impossible debate to have.
Instead of leaving remarks why not ask something!
You guys are not sounding like Atheists but more like Agnostics! Perhaps you really need to look deep within yourselves and ask yourselves what it is you truly believe |
I think the problems with the debate lie in the conjecture demonstrated above. |
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Bagpipes11
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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To lighten this SHIT argument, I found this interesting link about how different faiths and belief systems view shit...
Taoism: Shit happens.
Confucianism: Confucius say, "Shit happens."
Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
Islam: If shit happens, blame Israel.
Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
Episcopalian: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
Methodist: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.
Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Creationism: God made all shit.
Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
Christian Science: When shit happens, don't call a doctor - pray!
Christian Science #2: Shit happening is all in your mind.
Darwinism: This shit was once food.
Scientology: If shit happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.
Jehovah's Witnesses: >Knock< >Knock< Shit happens.
Jehovah's Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our shit?
Jehovah's Witnesses #3: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!
Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
Agnostic #2: Did someone shit?
Agnostic #3: What is this shit?
Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
Atheism: What shit?
Atheism #2: I can't believe this shit! |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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This thread sure is getting no where.
Last edited by Koreadays on Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinitarian wrote: |
The topic of THIS THREAD has to do with the teaching of creationism.
I have presented evidence that supports creationism. I'm still waiting for a rebuttal of this evidence. |
That's not evidence it's conjecture.
Questions are not evidence answers are evidence.
First you have to define evidence. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
I call it evolutionary theory or evolutionary biology. So do you.
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| Quote: |
| Look at Trinitarian's list of questions. Look at half of your list of questions. Evolutionary theory is being attacked here just as much as Christianity. Find an example of me attacking a Christian first chance I got. Go on, find one. |
I�ll take your word for it... if you say so...
But Christians do get a fair share of the slack!
I just put you in the group of the extremists with ED, hale, Mm2... If you are not in their group and don�t see eye to eye with them, then I apologize
| Quote: |
| Is it? Admittedly I joined the debate later (page 350 or so) but I have never once argued for or against the existence of a god on these threads. |
You saying the subject haven�t come up until now?
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| I have never once said we don't have to know our origins. Evolutionary theory still works whether we know or not. |
Yes it works! So what?? But we don�t know if it�s working thanks to god.
And to me that�s more important! I need to know !
| Quote: |
| Have I ever said I was an atheist? What makes you assume I'm an atheist? I've been one of the biggest advocates of creationism and evolution being able to co-exist on these threads. You've done little but tell everyone they're wrong. |
Ok then if you are not an atheists I take it back..
I assumed you were one, again I type casted you into the group of dawkin supporters like MM2 and ED... If you are not in that group I apologize...
Ill ask you straight out then..
Are you an Atheist? |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Two posts up I see a post that looks like it was written by itaewonguy but the poster's name is Koreadays. When I hit the quote button I got an entirely different post. Did we break Dave's?
EDIT: Hmm, after posting it fixed itself.
To answer itaewonguy's question: I choose not to label my particular brand of spirituality, nor do I discuss it on message boards or try to apply it to people other than myself. In short, I believe spirituality to be a personal, subjective matter. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
Two posts up I see a post that looks like it was written by itaewonguy but the poster's name is Koreadays. When I hit the quote button I got an entirely different post. Did we break Dave's?
EDIT: Hmm, after posting it fixed itself.
To answer itaewonguy's question: I choose not to label my particular brand of spirituality, nor do I discuss it on message boards or try to apply it to people other than myself. In short, I believe spirituality to be a personal, subjective matter. |
Ohhhh what!! Come on now...
We are trying to be honest here, so why not open you up...
You don�t have to feel ashamed or afraid you will be attacked...
Defend your belief and lets all stop being negative and let�s embrace each other�s beliefs and let�s talk about them,
Anyway that is your personal choice and I if you wish to remain secretive about it, that�s your right...
after today�s posts I have realized I may have mistaken you and tomato. I think you guys seem a lot like me in regards to creation, you stick to your gut but at the same time leave the door open to other ideas...
again I am assuming but you guys don�t come across as staunch atheists maybe you are I guess I won�t know.
I apologize to you and tomato if I falsely accused you of being Anti deist!
But hey, that being said, if we disagree on something on here I am coming out guns blazing...: D |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Bagpipes11 wrote: |
To lighten this SHIT argument, I found this interesting link about how different faiths and belief systems view shit...
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Moonies: This shit is fallen
Mother of God: Let's dress this shit up Hanbok style
Kristianity: Please give 20% of every sparkling shit. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| Bagpipes11 wrote: |
To lighten this SHIT argument, I found this interesting link about how different faiths and belief systems view shit...
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Moonies: This shit is fallen
Mother of God: Let's dress this shit up Hanbok style
Kristianity: Please give 20% of every sparkling shit. |
Nihilism: this shit aint real!
Sikhism : even gods shit stinks!
Catholicism: Bury the shit! |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
I am confused. Because further down the page you say you agree in the possibility of a god!
What is it, are you atheists or agnostic? |
Agnostic.
Does that answer your question?
| Quote: |
| I�m just advocating that god is a possibility . . . |
I never said that God WASN'T a possibility.
| Quote: |
| and that evolution as we know it might have been from the touch of god! |
I never said that it COULDN'T have been.
Whoever said it takes two to make an argument never met you.
| Quote: |
| OHHH PLEASE!! Are you not atheist??? |
No, did I ever say I was?
| tomato wrote: |
How do you know?
When has anyone come up with any Cambrian mammals?
When has anyone come up with a cogent argument for Flood geology?
When has anyone come up with a radiometric instrument which indicates a worldwide flood in 2348 BC and which stops at 4004 BC? |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| You are confusing me... what exactly is your position?? |
That any of the above findings would be a serious challenge to Evolution.
That Evolution has solid scientific evidence on its side whereas Creationism only has out-of-context quotes, out-of-date quotes, and various other fallacies with which to hoodwink their readers and listeners.
That Evolutionists go out on the field and collect evidence while Creationists sit in the office writing religious propaganda. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
| Creationists sit in the office writing religious propaganda. |
well what do you expect them to do?
creationists have no other choice! so why hate them for it?
Last edited by itaewonguy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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koreajim
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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I could be wrong (which is perfectly fine by me), but...people seem to always focus on how evidence or proof validates one theory from another.
The main point is how we'll teach these subjects in classroom.
Evolution can be taught as a curriculum - it's been done. But wouldn't teaching creationism in the classroom suggest more literary symbolism then actual steps and process?
Unless we're going to count the 6 steps God used to create the Earth. I don't see very much consistent curriculum. I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching the idea of creationism, but how are we going to base our text books with this idea?
Will we guide our chapters with the Bible or the Torah? Or maybe the Book of Mormons? I can't possibly conceive a way for one set of beliefs to be "more right" then others.
My biased opinion: Creationists tend to set more time trying to dissolve the idea of evolution (or point out unexplainable), but I never hear much about the actual "creation" process itself. Is it simple as, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth," (Gen 1:1) ? |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| koreajim wrote: |
I could be wrong (which is perfectly fine by me), but...people seem to always focus on how evidence or proof validates one theory from another.
The main point is how we'll teach these subjects in classroom.
Evolution can be taught as a curriculum - it's been done. But wouldn't teaching creationism in the classroom suggest more literary symbolism then actual steps and process?
Unless we're going to count the 6 steps God used to create the Earth. I don't see very much consistent curriculum. I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching the idea of creationism, but how are we going to base our text books with this idea?
Will we guide our chapters with the Bible or the Torah? Or maybe the Book of Mormons? I can't possibly conceive a way for one set of beliefs to be "more right" then others.
My biased opinion: Creationists tend to set more time trying to dissolve the idea of evolution (or point out unexplainable), but I never hear much about the actual "creation" process itself. Is it simple as, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth," (Gen 1:1) ? |
I take it you didn�t go to catholic school then?
Well I did... and let me tell you it can be taught in school! With a curriculum a great big one at that! THE BIBLE!
But you are right.
It�s all philosophy! creationists don�t need to explain anything, in their eyes GOD created it all, now it�s just a matter of trying to explain who, how and what is god? The hundreds of religions we have all call him by different names! Religious studies are a complex subject! Taught in schools?
SO WHAT! Whatever! Let them teach it, most kids these days will take it in stride anyway! I went to catholic school, and it didn�t convert me!
I actually wasn�t interested at all... the most riveting religious experience I had was when I watched BEN HUR! And moses! When I was 5 years old I thought WOW a man parted the sea with one of those sticks! I got to get me one of those hahahaha
I wish we learned buddhism, yoga, and eastern philosphies!
but no! it was all about christ! |
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koreajim
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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I take it you didn�t go to catholic school then?
Well I did... and let me tell you it can be taught in school! With a curriculum a great big one at that! THE BIBLE!
But you are right.
It�s all philosophy! creationists don�t need to explain anything, in their eyes GOD created it all, now it�s just a matter of trying to explain who, how and what is god? The hundreds of religions we have all call him by different names! Religious studies are a complex subject! Taught in schools?
SO WHAT! Whatever! Let them teach it, most kids these days will take it in stride anyway! I went to catholic school, and it didn�t convert me!
I actually wasn�t interested at all... the most riveting religious experience I had was when I watched BEN HUR! And moses! When I was 5 years old I thought WOW a man parted the sea with one of those sticks! I got to get me one of those hahahaha
I wish we learned buddhism, yoga, and eastern philosphies!
but no! it was all about christ! |
I agree. It's not a big deal if creationism is taught, but it's the how it imposes a belief over another (Christianity, to be specific).
It's funny though. Just before this political issue, the presidential candidates were facing other hot topics about religion: evil.
And it makes me realize how this feels like a very familiar Republican tactic - to bring up the issues of Religion.
Personally, I like how Brian Unger reported about it on NPR.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93697475
I hope it's not too off-topic. But judging from what I read on this thread - going back to the topic of politics might be getting back on track  |
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