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somethingawful
Joined: 26 Nov 2008 Location: Daejeon
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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visitorq wrote: |
Who verified what exactly? Seriously, the whole place just exploded violently, and we're supposed to believe the reactor is just sitting there untouched? How about the rest of the facility (piping, machinery etc. attached to the core). Is it just a pot of molten uranium sitting there in a containment vessel? I honestly don't get it, the whole situation seems absurd. |
The explosions are a result of hydrogen building up and then igniting. They blew up the facades that cover the containment area. They're really for show and to keep the elements off the containment unit and the workers. It was expected to happen, and they were preparing for it. The destruction of the building's cover has no effect on the containment, except that a lot of the instruments for monitoring the core are offline, which doesn't really matter since they're not trying to maintain it, but shut it right down.
<simple analogy> It's like having a really secure oil tank in a shed. The shed blew up because of a propane leak, but the canister holding all that oil is still intact. Except in this case, the oil tank is a hardened metal/concrete canister designed to take tremendous abuse and shock and still retain it's contents.
Here is a diagram of the reactor, showing the core vs. the facades: http://images.smh.com.au/2011/03/14/2231357/japan-reactor2.jpg
As far as radiation in Tokyo, here is a live streaming geiger counter that seems to be reading normal. I've been watching it and it's been moving up and down from 12.78 - 12.83 which is probably a result of the radiation being emitted from the camera filming it, the electrical wires in the building, the atmosphere, radio waves, and whether of not the guy's makign popcorn with his microwave.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo
Even if there was radiation being released, it's blowing over the Atlantic and dissipating quickly. Given the half-life of the material this cloud of radiation (that can be defeated with "soap") probably won't even register on anything outside a laboratory once it hits land.
Don't go quoting US/European sources since they're more interested in pushing their own agendas ratings/religion/anti-nuke than actually being responsible journalists. |
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chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: quake |
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Even if there was radiation being released, it's blowing over the Atlantic |
That was some earthquake, if the Pacific Ocean has been obliterated, or the area of radiation release has been grossly understated! |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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somethingawful wrote: |
visitorq wrote: |
Who verified what exactly? Seriously, the whole place just exploded violently, and we're supposed to believe the reactor is just sitting there untouched? How about the rest of the facility (piping, machinery etc. attached to the core). Is it just a pot of molten uranium sitting there in a containment vessel? I honestly don't get it, the whole situation seems absurd. |
The explosions are a result of hydrogen building up and then igniting. They blew up the facades that cover the containment area. They're really for show and to keep the elements off the containment unit and the workers. It was expected to happen, and they were preparing for it.
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It was only expected to happen..after it happened. As soon as they started dumping seawater on the reactors, they've been re-writing the book on this one. From everything I've heard from nuclear industry analysists, there seems to be an overwhelming hindsight bias ingrained them. "It's not going to a Cherynobyl",well I can agree on that, it's not going to be a Cherynobyl, it's going to be a Fukishima. It's going to be it's own case study of went wrong.
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Don't go quoting US/European sources since they're more interested in pushing their own agendas ratings/religion/anti-nuke than actually being responsible journalists. |
So what sources do you trust? I am not at all confident in the Japanese officials on this one. They've been using weasel words from the get-go and their reassurances have been getting weaker and weaker. |
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smjstevens
Joined: 04 Jul 2009
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone please help those of us currently living here? From anyone in the know, do we need to get out of Korea? |
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highstreet
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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smjstevens wrote: |
Can someone please help those of us currently living here? From anyone in the know, do we need to get out of Korea? |
Do you really think someone on the internet is going to know more about the situation than the media? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone please help those of us currently living here? From anyone in the know, do we need to get out of Korea? |
Yes, flee.
Though if you are currently working in a good school that pays well and offers great holidays pm me, so I can take your position.
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smjstevens
Joined: 04 Jul 2009
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I was kind of hoping that someone who hasn't been at work during the day might have had a chance to follow more news and sources than I could. We're getting the message at my school that there's a radioactive cloud heading our way and we can't go outside after 4pm, but I can't find that information anywhere in online media sources, so someone must be more informed than I am. Or maybe it's just false hope.  |
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chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: quake |
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MOD EDIT
My co-teacher just came in a couple of minutes ago and told me that the third and fourth nuclear reactors in Japan blew up and the wind is changing direction now headed to Korea. He told me I should text my family and tell them that they must take extra precautions to avoid exposure to rain, or touching anything outside, and if at all possible to stay indoors.
This seems so alarmist. I don't know whether to make heads or tails of it. Does anybody who actually knows anything on this subject have the ability to comment? He got the text from another Korean who got a recent news update.
We're on the Korean east coast at the moment, and I may cut our trip short and head inland if this is a viable concern.
EDIT The Associated Press just put this out 20 minutes ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNOeRzCW105oyzi8VrtqR938MH6g?docId=193d394f40c2464191e6595bf37c1e10 |
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DejaVu
Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Location: Your dreams
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm in Japan for another two weeks and have no idea what to do... visitting Tokyo is now off the list.
Do I stay, though? Or do I leave for Seoul early?!?! |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: quake |
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chris_J2 wrote: |
MOD EDIT
My co-teacher just came in a couple of minutes ago and told me that the third and fourth nuclear reactors in Japan blew up and the wind is changing direction now headed to Korea. He told me I should text my family and tell them that they must take extra precautions to avoid exposure to rain, or touching anything outside, and if at all possible to stay indoors.
This seems so alarmist. I don't know whether to make heads or tails of it. Does anybody who actually knows anything on this subject have the ability to comment? He got the text from another Korean who got a recent news update.
We're on the Korean east coast at the moment, and I may cut our trip short and head inland if this is a viable concern.
EDIT The Associated Press just put this out 20 minutes ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNOeRzCW105oyzi8VrtqR938MH6g?docId=193d394f40c2464191e6595bf37c1e10 |
Two years of university Physics here, and a degree in math.
First, I wouldn't lose any sleep at all unless you are within a few kilometers of the plant. The amount of radiation released so far is pretty minute.
The actual bombs dropped on Japan didn't cause radiation deaths outside of the immediate area IIRC so why should this?
Coal kills far more people every year through accidents and pollution than Nuclear has killed ever. Including Chernobyl.
Staying indoors is a good idea though, it would reduce your exposure to automobiles. Those things kill thousands every year in Korea. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Just another thought after reading that article. It's ironic that an event which hasn't actually killed anyone yet (except for a handful of workers?) is overshadowing an actual disaster that killed thousands. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: Re: quake |
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OneWayTraffic wrote: |
chris_J2 wrote: |
MOD EDIT
My co-teacher just came in a couple of minutes ago and told me that the third and fourth nuclear reactors in Japan blew up and the wind is changing direction now headed to Korea. He told me I should text my family and tell them that they must take extra precautions to avoid exposure to rain, or touching anything outside, and if at all possible to stay indoors.
This seems so alarmist. I don't know whether to make heads or tails of it. Does anybody who actually knows anything on this subject have the ability to comment? He got the text from another Korean who got a recent news update.
We're on the Korean east coast at the moment, and I may cut our trip short and head inland if this is a viable concern.
EDIT The Associated Press just put this out 20 minutes ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNOeRzCW105oyzi8VrtqR938MH6g?docId=193d394f40c2464191e6595bf37c1e10 |
Two years of university Physics here, and a degree in math.
First, I wouldn't lose any sleep at all unless you are within a few kilometers of the plant. The amount of radiation released so far is pretty minute.
The actual bombs dropped on Japan didn't cause radiation deaths outside of the immediate area IIRC so why should this?
Coal kills far more people every year through accidents and pollution than Nuclear has killed ever. Including Chernobyl.
Staying indoors is a good idea though, it would reduce your exposure to automobiles. Those things kill thousands every year in Korea. |
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf06.html
link for you |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:14 am Post subject: |
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A few thoughts:
- The so-called "authorities" are definitely lying, and have been since the start. This should come as no surprise, since that's what governments do (they think we're idiots). The situation is very dire around the plants, and they do not have the situation under control. It doesn't mean it's the end of the world, but don't base everything you do on the gov't and Tepco press releases.
- Some of the reactors are much dirtier than thought, and the fuel includes recycled Plutonium as well as Uranium. Plutonium is quite a bit deadlier in terms of fall out.
- There's no need for panic if you happen to be in Tokyo now. If you're in Fukushima, then personally I'd get the hell out of there (even beyond the evacuation zones). The radiation is not deadly beyond those areas, but is still not good in any amounts. (Bear in mind that Western and other countries have detonated hundreds of massive nuclear weapons in the open air around the world over the decades, and we're all still alive. Nuclear radiation is certainly no picnic, but is often hyped up in Hollywood movies etc.)
- If you're over there now, I'd recommend at the very least trying to take some basic precautions: limit consumption of food that has been exposed to the outside air (fruits, veggies etc.) and tap water. Dry your clothes indoors. Taking potassium iodine supplements for the next while might be a good plan (or eat a whole bunch of kombu, since it has a lot of the natural iodine in it). This protects from any effects of radioactive iodine (which is deadly for the thyroid). |
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somethingawful
Joined: 26 Nov 2008 Location: Daejeon
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Please panic! Please act upon 2nd/3rd/50th hand information from email chain letters and scaremongering media outlets.
Some rational info. . .
In the aftermath of the recent earthquake and tsunami in Japan, two nuclear power stations on the east coast of Japan have been experiencing problems. They are the Fukushima Daiichi ("daiichi" means "number one") and Fukushima Daini ("number two") sites, operated by the Tokyo Electric Power Company (or TEPCO). Site one has six reactors, and site two has four. The problematic reactors are #1, #2, #3 and (in a different way) #4 at site one. Reactors one through three are the oldest of the ten and were due to be decommissioned this year.
In short, the earthquake combined with the tsunami have impaired the cooling systems at these reactors, which has made it difficult for TEPCO to shut them down completely. Reactors #1 and #3 are now considered safe after crew flooded the reactors with sea water. Reactor #2 is undergoing the sea water injection process but has experienced multiple complications. Reactors four through six were shut down for inspection before the earthquake occurred and are all in cold shutdown; however, the building that houses #4 experienced a fire unrelated to the reactor core.
The four reactors at site two did not have their systems impaired and have shut down normally.
There has been an evacuation in a radius of 20km around site one, and 10km around site two. Due to recent events, the Prime Minister of Japan has asked people between 20km and 30km of site one to remain indoors for the time being.
Where are you getting this information?
This FAQ is based on information taken from primary sources: press conferences by the Japanese government and TEPCO as shown on Japanese television, TEPCO press releases, independent documentation about the type of reactor, and statements by the Japanese Nuclear Safety Commission, the Japanese Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency, and the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Can this cause a nuclear explosion?
No. It is physically impossible for a nuclear power station to explode like a nuclear weapon.
What are they doing about it? What was this about explosions?
From the very beginning, TEPCO has had the option to flood the reactor chambers with boron-enriched sea water, which would replace the normal cooling systems and allow the reactors to perform their normal cooldown. Unfortunately, this also destroys the reactors permanently due to the corrosive nature of sea water and other factors. Doing so would cost TEPCO and Japanese taxpayers billions of dollars, even though these reactors were due to be decommissioned shortly. More importantly, it would make those reactors unavailable for generating electricity during a nationwide disaster. The sea water method is a "last resort" in this sense, but it has always been an option.
To avoid this, TEPCO first took steps to bring the cooling systems back online and to reduce the pressure on the inside of the containment vessel. This involved bringing in external portable generators, repairing damaged systems, venting steam and gases from inside the containment vessel, and other tasks. These methods worked for reactor #2 at site one, prior to complications; reactors four through six were shut down before for inspection before the earthquake hit. However, reactors #1 and #3 did not respond properly to these attempts, and it was decided to flood reactor #1 and later #3 with sea water.
One of the byproducts of reactors like the ones at Fukushima is hydrogen. Normally this gas is vented and burned slowly. More hydrogen gas than usual may have been generated due to damage to the fuel cores in reactors #1 and #3. Due to the nature of the accident, the vented hydrogen gas was not properly burned as it was released. This led to a build up of hydrogen gas inside the reactor #1 building, but outside the containment vessel.
During the flooding of reactor #1 with sea water, this gas ignited, causing the top of the largely cosmetic external shell to be blown off. This shell was made of sheet metal on a steel frame and did not require a great deal of force to be destroyed. The reactor itself was not damaged in this explosion, and there were only four minor injuries. This was a conventional chemical reaction and not a nuclear explosion.
Is Tokyo in danger?
Currently, measured radiation levels are slightly higher than normal in many areas of Japan at the moment, including parts of Tokyo. However, they are still down in single- or double-digit microSv per hour levels, far below any danger.
This does not mean that future events might not change this. Events such as a spent fuel rod fire could cause more widespread problems, depending on the severity of the incident.
As it stands now there is no danger from radiation in Tokyo. |
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Murakano
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Japanese tsunami: Scottish teacher hailed hero for rescuing kids during earthquake
A HERO Scot rescued students from a collapsing building at the height of the quake.
Teacher Roy Cameron, 31, saved people from his English language school as it caved in around him.
The Glaswegian has lived in Fukushima province for seven years. His partner Yuko Yamada, 36, is eight months pregnant.
Roy said: "I have - or had - three schools with over 400 students. Until Friday, earthquakes have been a routine thing, but what we experienced was something that you would never wish upon anyone.
"I was in class with two students. Immediately we knew this wasn't going to be your monthly shake.
"This one started violently. My students went under the tables - we usually just giggle about it.
"We could hear ripping sounds. I told them to run.
"The pavement started breaking across the road. I ran back in to get another teacher and student. The wall on the stairs collapsed and the ceiling started ripping.
"I reached the classroom to get the other two. We ran back down the staircase which was being reduced to a crumpled mess.
"I had to make another run to get our Japanese manager from reception. She was curled into a ball near the computer.
"Thank God all my team is fine but I'm still waiting to hear back from my students."
Many expats are fleeing the country, but Roy said: "I received a lot of help from my students and the city and I'm not going to abandon them.
"I'm just glad the people around me are okay."
Meanwhile, the family of a British dad missing in the worst-hit area of Japan were praying for his safety last night.
Brian Hickebottom, 34, has not been heard from since the 9.0-magnitude quake devastated Sendai.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/03/15/japanese-tsunami-scottish-teacher-hailed-hero-for-rescuing-kids-during-earthquake-86908-22991156/ |
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