|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Hey Captain...you wrote this
| Quote: |
| On our last trip to Canada my wife and I were talking with friends. When we talked about taking our daughter to the zoo, one of them piped up about how surprised she was the Korea/Seoul had a zoo. My wife later said something along the lines of "we're a city of 24 fooking million, WTF does she think we have, rice patties??" |
That happens to my wife fairly often in Canada. It is mostly benign ignorance and not malicious but she does blow her gaskets sometimes!!!
Another common theme is that they assume she is Chinese or ask amazingly dumb questions about her country!
It happens everywhere when you are an expat/immigrant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JeffersonDarcy2010
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| JeffersonDarcy2010 wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| JeffersonDarcy2010 wrote: |
I have four yes/no questions for you:
1. Is it common for Koreans to discriminate against blacks?
2. Is discrimination by age common in Korean society?
3. Is discrimination by appearance common in Korean society?
4. Is the act of eating dog meat well known to be prevalent in Korea? |
1, 2, and 3 would all be yes... but to degrees. Just like I'd say yes to all three in Western nations... to degrees.
|
90% versus 10% - is not the same... the degree is the whole point, Captain.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| As for #4, WTF is the point? |
Read the thread above. I just mentioned it when imagined Korea becoming dominant global culture and what things other nations would have to adopt according to Patrick. |
Wow, you quoted Pastor not me!
Can you even get your quoted passages right? |
You were the one who brought the idea to the table about that the dominant countries dictate the global standards. So, I just ridiculed YOUR idea - which I guess you can't handle.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Also Pastor and I were having a pretty interesting exchange of ideas befotre you jumped in and started vomiting your racist bile all over the thread.
Now if, like you said in your "response" to Captain Corea, it is all about degrees (as in the degree or proportion of a behavior in a set group) then why ask yes/no questions in the first place? |
To get you, Patrick, to admit at least SOMETHING. Those questions were personally for you, and you still don't wish to answer them.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Graded questions on a scale would be better no? You would then get levels (however subjective they would be) and that would perhaps make whatever case you are trying to make.
Wait...that was far too complex for you.
Lets save ourselves the trouble with you and lets answer Yes to whatever loaded simplistic and invalid questions you ask.
Everyone, in chorus now...
Yes.
Now you can go away. |
I made them as direct and simple as possible to get you to answer, but I guess even that is too difficult for you. What is so hard to admit, Patrick? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, now take it reaaaallll slow now
I discussed the concept that dominant COUNTRIES tend to generate a cultural TREND. Note the complete absence of Korea in my discussion on DOMINANT COUNTRIES.
For the fun of it, here is what I actually said (two pages back):
Well I actually do beleive that there are no official global standards. What there are are dominant trends that tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group.
Globalisation is affecting this in many ways, that is for sure. As for generic behaviors or norms, there are inklings of these in international business but nothing along the lines of rules that everyone follows.
Pastor responded with what if Korea was dominant....
That is what you quoted genius.
Again, for fun here is what you said, page 8:
| Quote: |
JeffersonDarcy2010
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:29 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PastorYoon wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
What there are are dominant trends that tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group.
So if one day Korea were to become a dominant cultural group, the dominant trend in the world would be to be pointing their fingers and laughing at people on the subway, and all of the rest of the package that comes along with Korean culture.
Ha ha. Good point, pastor! I guess the most important things that a global society would love to adopt from Korean culture (in case it becomes dominant) would be blatant racism toward black people, discrimination by age and appearance, and of course everybody in the world would love to know how their pets taste! I sincerely hope Korea will never become dominant in anything.
|
Your questions are dumb. Look to Captains post and to the other person who discussed them. My answers are the same as them, no need for me to repeat the information.
You did not ask questions, you laid down a trap to make your point.
Ask real questions and perhaps you will get my answers.
Can you even formulate complex thoughts that go beyiond yes/no?
Still, since you want answers...here they are my friend
| Quote: |
| 1. Is it common for Koreans to discriminate against blacks? |
No its not COMMON but it does happen in SOME CASES.
| Quote: |
| 2. Is discrimination by age common in Korean society? |
No its not COMMON but it does happen and the degree to which it happens depends on the situation (employment issues for example). Positive and negative age discrimination occurs as well.
| Quote: |
| 3. Is discrimination by appearance common in Korean society? |
No but it does play a part in some circles. Again this can be positive or negative discrimination.
| Quote: |
| 4. Is the act of eating dog meat well known to be prevalent in Korea? |
No. In reality, dog meat restaurants are not all that common anymore.
Well known by whom? Prevalent in what way? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| PastorYoon wrote: |
I love how you can act so genuinely curious.  You know full well what things I don't appreciate in Korean culture. I've been through this before with you, but I'll take the bait and name a few:
1. Openly pointing at foreigners and laughing and/or screaming "Hello!" while laughing.
2. Approaching absolute strangers who are foreigners and asking inappropriate and loaded questions - with an intent to show their power or superiority over you.
3. I have personally experienced on numerous occasions buses driving right by me - and not picking me up - while I am standing at a designated bus stop and waving my arms. I have personally witnessed Koreans being picked up or dropped off outside of the designated bus stop areas, and I'm sure this exception would never be made for a foreigner.
4. I don't like how people stare at me. People stare at me when I'm on the subway, and sometimes the people are so fixated on me, that they scan my entire body, from head to toe. I can understand curiosity, but I don't appreciate people staring into my throat while I'm eating a sandwich, looking into my ears while I'm on the subway, sticking their head into my shopping cart when I'm at E-Mart (and turning and talking with someone about what I have, then judging me and staring at me).
5. I've had Koreans tell me that "most Americans are fat, aren't they?" and that "Americans don't have a sense of fashion". In fact, Koreans are the ones who produce cheap, out of style, ugly clothing. Even still, I wouldn't approach a Korean and blatantly express my opinions to them, just to put them down.
6. I've already wrote in another thread that my wife's dermatologist (supposedly an educated and professional person) asked her "Korean skin is much better than white skin, isn't it?"
As far as legal standards:
7. I've heard and read countless stories about foreigners getting sued by Koreans, and there is absolutely not one thing the foreigner can do about it, except for paying money, or being deported. I have researched, but have never read or seen one instance where a foreigner actually won a court case in this country. I would be surprised to hear if ever such an event took place.
My point is that people shouldn't behave in ways like this if they want to be globally accepted beyond being a supplier of cheap cars and electronics. They're already screaming that they are "global leaders", but in reality, they are so far from that. |
| PastorYoon wrote: |
| 7. I did reference Korean law, not a "global legal standard". The reason I did that was to provide you with an example, as you requested. You made a point that foreign teachers on many occasions win cases vs. their schools by way of the labor board. That's a good point. However, there are no labor boards for daily life outside of the school. If something were to happen on the street where a foreigner got sued by a Korean, they'd be totally screwed. |
Wow, man. You have a seriously skewed perspective on this place.
Numbered for my convenience...
1. Annoying, yes. But I'd take it over some of the racial slurs I've seen hurled at minorities in the West.
2. You're presuming intent.
3. They've made this exception for me. A few of the bus driver around my apartment notice and remember me and even ask me questions if I'm coming home late/leaving early.
4. Agreed. It can be very annoying at times.
5. Most Americans are fat, aren't they?" Seriously. American has a weight problem. No shame in admitting to it.
6. Yup, you encountered an idiot. No chance of meeting them back home, right?
On our last trip to Canada my wife and I were talking with friends. When we talked about taking our daughter to the zoo, one of them piped up about how surprised she was the Korea/Seoul had a zoo. My wife later said something along the lines of "we're a city of 24 fooking million, WTF does she think we have, rice patties??"
Idiots and ignorance abound in every place.
7. Foreigners can hire lawyers. I know because i have. If you've got money and/or contacts, you don't get pushed around.
You sound like you need to leave though... and there's no shame in that. Korea is not for everyone. But some of those claims are a bit out to lunch (while others I agree with). |
My perspective is directly related to the treatment I've received during my 3 years in Korea. I came to Korea like an open book; I had no clue how things would change. For the record, I have a white wife. We have had many discussions about our experiences here (which we agree upon), and we do not have any reason to apologize for or justify the behavior of the Korean people we meet.
2. I can understand what intentions people have when they talk to me. I have experienced people absolutely going out of their way to bring up uncomfortable topics to me. In those situations, it wasn't just a matter of perspective.
3. Cool. I have met a few people who were genuinely nice to me, too. Not so many, though. The things I listed earlier were about general tendencies of Korean culture, and were not meant to imply there were no exceptions.
5. Sure, a lot of Americans in fact are fat, but not most. I don't have a problem admitting it. But I don't go around telling Koreans in their face what imperfections I see in them! Would you like to know why? Because I am considerate of people's feelings, and I don't need to put others down to feel better about myself.
7. Sure, and if you don't have much money and heavy-hitters for friends, then your chances aren't very good. You're a sure mark for someone to legally steal from.
As far as leaving the country, I have my 6 months which I am counting the days. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Really surprised that people can't find deodorant.
If nowhere else, you can find it in GukJae market near Jagalchi subway stop
in Busan. The shops that have bottles of imported liquor and vitamin pills
usually have it.
I was able to find deodorant at various convenience stores, although the selection was very limited. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JeffersonDarcy2010
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Yes, now take it reaaaallll slow now
I discussed the concept that dominant COUNTRIES tend to generate a cultural TREND. Note the complete absence of Korea in my discussion on DOMINANT COUNTRIES.
For the fun of it, here is what I actually said (two pages back):
Well I actually do beleive that there are no official global standards. What there are are dominant trends that tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group.
Globalisation is affecting this in many ways, that is for sure. As for generic behaviors or norms, there are inklings of these in international business but nothing along the lines of rules that everyone follows.
Pastor responded with what if Korea was dominant....
That is what you quoted genius.
Again, for fun here is what you said, page 8:
| Quote: |
JeffersonDarcy2010
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:29 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PastorYoon wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
What there are are dominant trends that tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group.
So if one day Korea were to become a dominant cultural group, the dominant trend in the world would be to be pointing their fingers and laughing at people on the subway, and all of the rest of the package that comes along with Korean culture.
Ha ha. Good point, pastor! I guess the most important things that a global society would love to adopt from Korean culture (in case it becomes dominant) would be blatant racism toward black people, discrimination by age and appearance, and of course everybody in the world would love to know how their pets taste! I sincerely hope Korea will never become dominant in anything.
|
Your questions are dumb. Look to Captains post and to the other person who discussed them. My answers are the same as them, no need for me to repeat the information.
You did not ask questions, you laid down a trap to make your point. |
That's why I said "Good point, pastor!" If I would have meant you, I would have said 'Patrick'. Facepalm. There is nothing that confusing about this.
You said "dominant trends tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group". Pastor ridiculed it, with an example of what would happen if Korea became the dominant group. I supported him.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Ask real questions and perhaps you will get my answers.
Can you even formulate complex thoughts that go beyiond yes/no?
Still, since you want answers...here they are my friend
| Quote: |
| 1. Is it common for Koreans to discriminate against blacks? |
No its not COMMON but it does happen in SOME CASES.
| Quote: |
| 2. Is discrimination by age common in Korean society? |
No its not COMMON but it does happen and the degree to which it happens depends on the situation (employment issues for example). Positive and negative age discrimination occurs as well.
| Quote: |
| 3. Is discrimination by appearance common in Korean society? |
No but it does play a part in some circles. Again this can be positive or negative discrimination.
| Quote: |
| 4. Is the act of eating dog meat well known to be prevalent in Korea? |
No. In reality, dog meat restaurants are not all that common anymore.
Well known by whom? Prevalent in what way? |
No, No, No, No to all four questions? Congratulations, Patrick, you are a liar! I am done with you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am done derailing this thread.
Apologies to the OP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thread has officially been hijacked |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Things to know before coming to Korea:
How much things cost on a day to day basis.
What your pay represents in terms of budget, savings and discretionary income.
Dynamics of the Korean workplace.
How bloody hot and humid it gets in Busan in August.
The characteristics of Korean learners and how to reach these learners effectively. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eedoryeong
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Location: Jeju
|
| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 2:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
You can bet your ass I am aware of some of the discrimination that occurs in Busan |
Thank you My work here is done.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Have a good one out there my friends and wait...what was that I heard? It was the borg Korean conspiracy! |
Okay, that was truly funny and quote-worthy. I thank you for that.
I don't think there's anything wrong with raising awareness of this reality, and it doesn't have to become blanketing everyone in order to do that, nor does mentioning it necessarily have to expose one to being labeled unfavorably either.
I'm sorry you don't feel that way. Maybe you could be there more for your foreign friends if you weren't so driven to make this society work as a viable option for your kids. By the way I do hope the best for your kids. But what do you do when folks/friends vent about a run in? Do you just dial your 1800 narcissist spotting hotline? I hope not. It's not all bullshit either. There are some majorly f*cked up people in Busan especially in the ddal dongnaes and the downtown. Consider the high sucide rate and don't be so quick to call 'foul'.
But even if you must, at least through this exchange the OP has learned that
1) there is a real problem (to a debated extent, can you live with that?) that people are grappling with
2) there are foreigners in Korea who are reasonable and see it
3) there are foreigners in Korea with sh*t-colored glasses on that only see it
4) there are foreigners in Korea with rose-colored glasses that don't want to see it.
OP can make up his/her own mind where we fall on that spectrum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
|
| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JeffersonDarcy2010 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Yes, now take it reaaaallll slow now
PastorYoon wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
What there are are dominant trends that tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group.
So if one day Korea were to become a dominant cultural group, the dominant trend in the world would be to be pointing their fingers and laughing at people on the subway, and all of the rest of the package that comes along with Korean culture.
Ha ha. Good point, pastor! I guess the most important things that a global society would love to adopt from Korean culture (in case it becomes dominant) would be blatant racism toward black people, discrimination by age and appearance, and of course everybody in the world would love to know how their pets taste! I sincerely hope Korea will never become dominant in anything.
|
Your questions are dumb. Look to Captains post and to the other person who discussed them. My answers are the same as them, no need for me to repeat the information.
You did not ask questions, you laid down a trap to make your point. |
That's why I said "Good point, pastor!" If I would have meant you, I would have said 'Patrick'. Facepalm. There is nothing that confusing about this.
You said "dominant trends tend to emanate from the dominant cultural group". Pastor ridiculed it, with an example of what would happen if Korea became the dominant group. I supported him.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Ask real questions and perhaps you will get my answers.
Can you even formulate complex thoughts that go beyiond yes/no?
Still, since you want answers...here they are my friend
| Quote: |
| 1. Is it common for Koreans to discriminate against blacks? |
No its not COMMON but it does happen in SOME CASES.
| Quote: |
| 2. Is discrimination by age common in Korean society? |
No its not COMMON but it does happen and the degree to which it happens depends on the situation (employment issues for example). Positive and negative age discrimination occurs as well.
| Quote: |
| 3. Is discrimination by appearance common in Korean society? |
No but it does play a part in some circles. Again this can be positive or negative discrimination.
| Quote: |
| 4. Is the act of eating dog meat well known to be prevalent in Korea? |
No. In reality, dog meat restaurants are not all that common anymore.
Well known by whom? Prevalent in what way? |
No, No, No, No to all four questions? Congratulations, Patrick, you are a liar! I am done with you.[/quote]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha. I love my coworkers and the staff and the students I work with.
^^^^^^ But, I agree. 'No' to #s 1-3 and a subtle 'no' to #4.
I don't really see many dog sp0ts around. You're 1 for 4 on
your delusions, Pat. Hey, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't having a
great experience. That said, it really depends what type of person
you are.
People should ask themselves how tolerant they are. How they may 'rub someone the wrong way'. Knuckleheads don't have great experiences anywhere. But, #s 1-3 are definitely prevalent everywhere in Korea.
Apologists will say that these things can happen everywhere, which is true. Not nearly as much in K land, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Most of these Koreans could give two rips about the well-being of a foreigner. I was on the subway last night, and I was leaning against the door. It was pretty crowded, and I prefer not to turn into the door - nearly pressing my face against it. Anyway, this old Korean man starts telling me in banmal that I should be facing the door, and starts grabbing my arm. I said "manjijima". Then, he started hitting me with his cane and talking a bit louder at me, as to show his power. I had to physically grab this old guy and push him back, in order to prevent him from hitting me any further. A younger Korean man then took him away from me.
I can understand that maybe the guy was in a bad mood, and that we were getting close to the station, so maybe he thought I didn't know I had to turn around to face the door. I knew that I had to exit the door. However, this guy had no right to start hitting me with his cane. These people act so ridiculous sometimes, it's not even funny. Who do these older Koreans think they are? They think they rule the world. Seriously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PastorYoon wrote: |
Most of these Koreans could give two rips about the well-being of a foreigner. I was on the subway last night, and I was leaning against the door. It was pretty crowded, and I prefer not to turn into the door - nearly pressing my face against it. Anyway, this old Korean man starts telling me in banmal that I should be facing the door, and starts grabbing my arm. I said "manjijima". Then, he started hitting me with his cane and talking a bit louder at me, as to show his power. I had to physically grab this old guy and push him back, in order to prevent him from hitting me any further. A younger Korean man then took him away from me.
I can understand that maybe the guy was in a bad mood, and that we were getting close to the station, so maybe he thought I didn't know I had to turn around to face the door. I knew that I had to exit the door. However, this guy had no right to start hitting me with his cane. These people act so ridiculous sometimes, it's not even funny. Who do these older Koreans think they are? They think they rule the world. Seriously. |
Maybe they need more guys to hit them on the bus. Though I was critical of the action at the time. But, now I'm wondering. Nothing happened to him. Guess, it's time for foriegners to stand up to these pricks! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| FDNY wrote: |
EVERYONE should read and memorize this. Seoul is EVERYTHING in Korea.
Remember "Cohiba's Rule" (Now better than ever!):
Think twice before you live outside of Seoul. "In Seoul" and
"outside of Seoul" are like two different countries. Seoul
is an interesting place with variety and venues for most
tastes. Outside of Seoul you will find a homogeneous Korean
culture. I don't mean this in a bad way, but you will never
find things like: French, Greek, Indian or any other ethnic
foods. Markets that sell sherry, pate, pastrami, ricotta cheese.
Specialty shops that sell Cuban cigars, European pies, cold
cuts or rye breads. Just to name a few things. Also clubs such
as photography, drama, public speaking, sailing are 99% in
the capital city. If you want to experiment with a very Korean
culture, which unfortunately means "closed", then choose the
countryside. If you want to make money and have the lifestyle
choices similar to a western country, then there is no other
choice than Seoul.
The FFF RULE: FFF=Fun For Foreigners.
If FFF in Seoul = 100, then FFF decreases at
1/distance. So 2km from Seoul FFF=1/2(100)=50;
10km from Seoul FFF=1/10(100)=10. This rule is
a rule for nightlife, food and foreign products only.
Nature etc. is on a different scale altogether.
This means you will be wasting a lot of time commuting
to Seoul. This is especially a drag if you have been
boozing on a Friday night and there are no buses or
trains. |
If this is Cohiba's Rule, then Mr. Cohiba needs to take some remedial math classes. Your formula should read:
If FFF in Seoul = 100, then FFF is calculated by 1/distance times FFF in Seoul. And even in that case, if I'm only say, 0.3 km away from Seoul, then I'd have a substantially higher FFF than if I lived in Seoul (FFF@333). So are we proposing that foreigners live slightly outside of Seoul in Bundang and the like? I'd think not.
Ah....the fear of numbers make many a sad retard a true believer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
