|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Do you claim, as he does, that if an invading army were marching down your home town in England that the best route would be to collaborate and assist them rather than pick up a gun and oppose? |
There's legitimate opposition, and then there's blowing yourself up outside a mosque. There's fighting against tyranny, and then there's fighting to impose a medieval theocracy. I doubt someone who holds such morally relativistic views as yours would be able to make the distinction. |
You took the trouble to label me in a way I would not describe myself ... and that took more trouble than to just answer the question - so why did you even bother?
You've got a gun and it has bullets. You are concealed and you can get away clean. The foreign army has come far beyond the white cliffs of Dover and are now ransacking the boutiques in Chelsea and the quaint bookshops in Notting Hill ...
You have a gun and you are there, and so are the invaders who intend long-term occupation and are building military bases on your soil that are intended to last for decasdes or more - you can take that shot and get away clean. Will you pull the trigger?
You have said in another matter that there are only two alternatives, but that was about the behavior of nations, and not about individuals so it was a willfulness on your to say that ... in this case there are really only two choices. You pull the trigger or you do not.
We have already heard what Joo has to say about it. If you want to defend his stance you will have to say something important and real. It would be a good change, really ...
When you get some time, read a little about Cindy Sheehan - just glanced around and that IS the topic of the thread ... did you notoice? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
"I'm finished crying for Casey. I'm crying for all the other mothers."
From Wikipedia
��Some people are trying to paint her as one crazy woman against the war, and she��s not. A lot of people feel like her and want to know what the noble cause is,�� said Karen Meredith, referring to Cindy Sheehan.
Her public statements have been quoted extensively, especially when they are controversial or inflammatory. What cannot be denied is that she has had an effect : since she began to sit outside of the Crawford Ranch in August and continued with a tour of cities where antiwar demonstrators have begun similar vigils, the presidents approval rating has dropped by below anything he has seen before, and the numbers of Americans polled who respond with negative views about the war in Iraq have climbed steadily.
It's made her highly feared among the Right, and a near-constant target for conservative pundits and bloggers - she has been called anti-semitic, a fruitcake, unpatriotic, a feckless tool of the left, and a disgrace to the memory of her son. She has written a lot and spoken a lot and her detractors have gone to enormous effort to cull through the lot of it to find a few quotable moments to use for attack-fodder.
And at the end of the day, she is not a politician, not a mover and shaker, never was and never wanted to be. She's an average American, quite boringly so ... and such a one as her is able to strike fear into the hearts of the rightwing and the entire Executive Branch.
Cool.
VERY cool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Still curious what it says about you that you do this. I think you care a lot about me, that you download my words into your machine just to save them from the deleting mod's axe ... part of me is really touched by this, Joo. |
those words are findable on other threads.
| Quote: |
| By the way,do you really think that your stance of collabaration and assisting an occupying force in your country is superior in some way to my own simple statement that I( can understand that people seeing thier hoimes under attack do not care much about international law? If you do think so, tell us why you do. I'm curious. |
would have been criminal for WW II Japan to fight against the US?
The Kurds and the Shias aren't fighting.
Furthermore as I said before
would fight for my country if my government was legitimate, and if the invaders were really out to destroy my country and destroy my home and my family
But Saddam's government was not legitimate.
And US forces are not out to destroy Iraq , nor are they out to destroy the homes of Iraqis.
So your comparison is junk
And I would not be fighting against elections like the insurgents are.
Nor would I participate or support the mideast revolutionary agenda that Saddam engaged in.
And again the if the insurgents are fighting for their homes then why are they targeting other ethnic groups?
It is not legitimate to attack other ethnic groups.
It is not legitimate to try to stop elections cause your group can't win.
It is not legitimate to fight for the bathist geo political/ regional agenda.
It is not legitimate to go against the wishes of the legitimate Iraqi government which is not only more legitimate and representative than the previous Iraqi government but more legitimate and representative than most governments in the middle.
If the insurgents were fighting for their homes and families they would not do these things.
The insurgents are not fighting for their homes and families they are fighting to rule Iraq.
The insurgents ' war in not legitimate.
| Quote: |
Let me know when you have anything new to say about Cindy ... |
| Quote: |
| Do YOU agree with Joo's route of quisling collaboation? I doubt it, and I wonder why you defend it. Do you claim, as he does, that if an invading army were marching down your home town in England that the best route would be to collaborate and assist them rather than pick up a gun and oppose? I wonder why you defend that also. |
The Kurds and the Shias are with the Iraqi. YOu sound just like your Bathist blogger.
would have been criminal for WW II Japan to fight against the US?
The Kurds and the Shias aren't fighting.
| Quote: |
| Have you heard of this woman named Cindy Sheehan? Come back when you have something to say about her ... |
Go to Wikipeda that tells enough about her.
| Quote: |
You have said in another matter that there are only two alternatives, but that was about the behavior of nations, and not about individuals so it was a willfulness on your to say that ... in this case there are really only two choices. You pull the trigger or you do not. |
I guess the Japanese and Germans who didn't fight against the US were collaberators.
Notice the Shia and the Kurds aren't fighting against the US.
Bob nowadays not only sounds like Ersatz he now sounds like Riverbend.
By the way according to North Korea the South Koreans were collabarators.
80% of Iraqi are not with the insurgents.
The Bobster is worried about the US being too powerful and thinks that the any strategic gain by the US is an ill gotten gain that must be returned .
The Bobster thinks that the US has no right to force mideast regimes and elites to stop teaching hate , incitining violence,. planning terror and funding Al Qaida. Well sorry Bob. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Still curious what it says about you that you do this. I think you care a lot about me, that you download my words into your machine just to save them from the deleting mod's axe ... part of me is really touched by this, Joo. |
those words are findable on other threads. |
All very nice and I have no problem with you quoting me, as I've said, still agree with what I said there and I'm trying to recall if you ever made a cogent argument about what I said there, beyond the usual slurs, namecalling and innuendo - still, far better than misrepresenting my opinions out of a motive of deciet like Gwangjuboy over there.
Still, why do you post dead links, Joo?
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| By the way,do you really think that your stance of collabaration and assisting an occupying force in your country is superior in some way to my own simple statement that I( can understand that people seeing thier hoimes under attack do not care much about international law? If you do think so, tell us why you do. I'm curious. |
would have been criminal for WW II Japan to fight against the US? |
I have no idea what this means.
You and just about everyone is aware of my feelings about Geo Bush, but if a foreign power conquered this president's govt and sent uccupation forces intent on staying for decades, I would pick up a gun and look for a good place to aim it and join any attempt to get him back in the Oval Office, and if collaborators like you had some objection, then they or you would need to pry that weapon out of my cold, dead hands.
(Oh, yeah, and I've always felt Charlton Heston was a ludicrous buffoon when he said that, but I have no doubt my mind would be changed very quickly after seeing my nation subjugated from abroad.)
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Have you heard of this woman named Cindy Sheehan? Come back when you have something to say about her ... |
Go to Wikipeda that tells enough about her. |
Yes, they do tell enough, but you quote them selectively.
She's written and spoken extensively, no one needs to agree with everything she says, but in fact very little of what she has said is very unusual or outside the range of opinion of milliions of Americans - check the polls, more and more are coming to agree with her as each week goes by.
As for selective quoting, perhaps soime balance is required here ...
What Cindy Sheehan (Also) Said
| Quote: |
| The Bobster thinks that the US has no right to force mideast regimes and elites to stop teaching hate , incitining violence,. planning terror and funding Al Qaida. Well sorry Bob. |
Now you are in Gwanguboy's league, as I've never said anything like that ... way to go.
Does anyone but me notice that invading Iraq has done NOTHING to "force" mideast regimes and elites to stop teaching hate , inciting violence,. planning terror and funding Al Qaida ...? Have these things, any of these things, stopped happening? If anything, whether because of the Iraq War or in spite of it, all this is still going on, and perhaps even on a larger scale than before.
The Iraq war is not good for anyone, especially not America. Cindy is right about that much, at least. End this crazy thing. End it now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| All very nice and I have no problem with you quoting me, as I've said, still agree with what I said there and I'm trying to recall if you ever made a cogent argument about what I said there, beyond the usual slurs, namecalling and innuendo - still, far better than misrepresenting my opinions out of a motive of deciet like Gwangjuboy over there. |
you will see what you have said - alot
| Quote: |
| Still, why do you post dead links, Joo? |
they tell about you.
| Quote: |
| I have no idea what this means. |
you think that those who work with the US occupation are collaborators
| Quote: |
| You and just about everyone is aware of my feelings about Geo Bush, but if a foreign power conquered this president's govt and sent uccupation forces intent on staying for decades, I would pick up a gun and look for a good place to aim it and join any attempt to get him back in the Oval Office, and if collaborators like you had some objection, then they or you would need to pry that weapon out of my cold, dead hands |
.
well see that the Kurds and the Shias aren't. Are they collberators?What about the big Sunni party that has accepted the elections are they collerators?
| Quote: |
Yes, they do tell enough, but you quote them selectively. |
I quote what she has said in much the same way wkpedia does. unless maybe I ought to post the whole long page. her quotes tell about her much.
| Quote: |
| She's written and spoken extensively, no one needs to agree with everything she says, but in fact very little of what she has said is very unusual or outside the range of opinion of milliions of Americans - check the polls, more and more are coming to agree with her as each week goes by. |
they would not agree with her quotes on the issues.
As for selective quoting, perhaps soime balance is required here ...
What Cindy Sheehan (Also) Said
| Quote: |
| Now you are in Gwanguboy's league, as I've never said anything like that ... way to go. |
Well that is what your opinions give you away as.
| Quote: |
| Does anyone but me notice that invading Iraq has done NOTHING to "force" mideast regimes and elites to stop teaching hate , inciting violence,. planning terror and funding Al Qaida ...? |
The results are not in yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All very nice and I have no problem with you quoting me, as I've said, still agree with what I said there and I'm trying to recall if you ever made a cogent argument about what I said there, beyond the usual slurs, namecalling and innuendo - still, far better than misrepresenting my opinions out of a motive of deciet like Gwangjuboy over there. |
you will see what you have said - alot |
Sounds a bit like a threat. Why do you want to threaten me? Why do think you can threaten me with what I like, which is someone taking the trouble to quote my words accurately? Glad you took that road rather than Gwangjuboy's route, though you do take his route at other times ...
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| I have no idea what this means. |
you think that those who work with the US occupation are collaborators |
Um, no. What I said is that if a similar thing happened in America, then YOU have said that you would side with the invaders and subjugators of our nation. It's what YOU said about yourself, and you have never denied it - if you think I said what claim, why not post a dead link and a quote out of your hard drive ... or, of course, you could post something real. But, gee, that would be something new.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes, they do tell enough, but you quote them selectively. |
I quote what she has said in much the same way wkpedia does. unless maybe I ought to post the whole long page. her quotes tell about her much. |
What you post from wiki is already a long page, and you have never refrained from posting longer pages before. But the fact that you posted only part of this long page days there was some reason you did not post other parts of it ...
All of which is okay, but you DID seem to claim thatg wiki was impartial, but them you chery-picked out of it. Seems you are claiming YOU are impartial, too, and this is a funny thing to think about.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| She's written and spoken extensively, no one needs to agree with everything she says, but in fact very little of what she has said is very unusual or outside the range of opinion of milliions of Americans - check the polls, more and more are coming to agree with her as each week goes by. |
they would not agree with her quotes on the issues. |
How may issues does this one woman have? She's against the war. full stop. That is her issue. Now go check the latest polls about the war and see who agrees with whom.
| Quote: |
The Bobster thinks that the US has no right to force mideast regimes and elites to stop teaching hate , incitining violence,. planning terror and funding Al Qaida. Well sorry Bob.
| Quote: |
| Now you are in Gwanguboy's league, as I've never said anything like that ... way to go. |
Well that is what your opinions give you away as. |
You have devoted space on your hard drive to things I said - which I still agree with - months ago and no longer availble for perusal. How do you plan to defend a bald-faced lie such as this?
You claim I said things I never did, and now you equivocate? Um, yeah, that's you, I guess ...
Clue : I never said those things. Earth calling Joo, do you read me, Major Tom?Frankly, I think you are drifing in a most peculiar way ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Sounds a bit like a threat. Why do you want to threaten me? Why do think you can threaten me with what I like, which is someone taking the trouble to quote my words accurately? Glad you took that road rather than Gwangjuboy's route, though you do take his route at other times |
...
I think it is just right to quote your words therefore everyone can you where you stand.
| Quote: |
| Um, no. What I said is that if a similar thing happened in America, then YOU have said that you would side with the invaders and subjugators of our nation. It's what YOU said about yourself, and you have never denied it - if you think I said what claim, why not post a dead link and a quote out of your hard drive ... or, of course, you could post something real. But, gee, that would be something new. |
this is what I said
Furthermore as I said before
would fight for my country if my government was legitimate, and if the invaders were really out to destroy my country and destroy my home and my family
But Saddam's government was not legitimate.
And US forces are not out to destroy Iraq , nor are they out to destroy the homes of Iraqis.
So your comparison is junk
And I would not be fighting against elections like the insurgents are.
Nor would I participate or support the mideast revolutionary agenda that Saddam engaged in.
And again the if the insurgents are fighting for their homes then why are they targeting other ethnic groups?
It is not legitimate to attack other ethnic groups.
It is not legitimate to try to stop elections cause your group can't win.
It is not legitimate to fight for the bathist geo political/ regional agenda.
It is not legitimate to go against the wishes of the legitimate Iraqi government which is not only more legitimate and representative than the previous Iraqi government but more legitimate and representative than most governments in the middle.
If the insurgents were fighting for their homes and families they would not do these things.
The insurgents are not fighting for their homes and families they are fighting to rule Iraq.
The insurgents ' war in not legitimate.
But that they are collberators is what you are getting at.
| Quote: |
What you post from wiki is already a long page, and you have never refrained from posting longer pages before. But the fact that you posted only part of this long page days there was some reason you did not post other parts of it ... |
Showing her quotes shows about her. that is why Wikipedia has a section on her quotes.
| Quote: |
| All of which is okay, but you DID seem to claim thatg wiki was impartial, but them you chery-picked out of it. Seems you are claiming YOU are impartial, too, and this is a funny thing to think about. |
I showed her quotes they tell alot about her.
| Quote: |
| How may issues does this one woman have? She's against the war. full stop. That is her issue. Now go check the latest polls about the war and see who agrees with whom. |
Most Americans don't agree with her interpretation of the war.
You
| Quote: |
| have devoted space on your hard drive to things I said - which I still agree with - months ago and no longer availble for perusal. How do you plan to defend a bald-faced lie such as this? |
there is no lie , you have said what you have. and your quotes can be found on other threads.
| Quote: |
| You claim I said things I never did, and now you equivocate? Um, yeah, that's you, I guess ... |
which things are that?
| Quote: |
Clue : I never said those things. Earth calling Joo, do you read me, r Tom?Frankly, I think you are drifing in a most peculiar way ... |
Well you are the Bobster. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Harper's Magazine: We Now Live in a Fascist State
"But I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, then Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism, will grow in strength in our land." -Franklin D. Roosevelt, November 4, 1938
In 1938 the word "fascism" hadn't yet been transferred into an abridged metaphor for all the world's unspeakable evil and monstrous crime, and on coming across President Roosevelt's prescient remark in one of Umberto Eco's essays, I could read it as prose instead of poetry -- a reference not to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse or the pit of Hell but to the political theories that regard individual citizens as the property of the government, happy villagers glad to wave the flags and wage the wars, grateful for the good fortune that placed them in the care of a sublime leader. Or, more emphatically, as Benito Mussolini liked to say, "Everything in the state. Nothing outside the state. Nothing against the state."
http://organicconsumers.org/Politics/harpers101205.cfm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sounds a bit like a threat. Why do you want to threaten me? Why do think you can threaten me with what I like, which is someone taking the trouble to quote my words accurately? Glad you took that road rather than Gwangjuboy's route, though you do take his route at other times |
...
I think it is just right to quote your words therefore everyone can you where you stand. |
Why do you think I have a problem with what I said? Why do YOU have a problem with what I said?
Oh, and while we're at it, why DO you post dead links, Joo?
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Um, no. What I said is that if a similar thing happened in America, then YOU have said that you would side with the invaders and subjugators of our nation. It's what YOU said about yourself, and you have never denied it - if you think I said what claim, why not post a dead link and a quote out of your hard drive ... or, of course, you could post something real. But, gee, that would be something new. |
this is what I said [...] (see above) |
You said you would fight for your country IF blabla blah and IF yadata yaddata ... I can't recall the last time I heard someone who claimed to be a patriot and love America qualify their devotion and willingness to defend it from outside invaders. I don't think I have EVER heard it - until you.
| Quote: |
| But that they are collberators is what you are getting at. |
No, I said that about you - or rather you said it about yourself. You have just confirmed it again today.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| How may issues does this one woman have? She's against the war. full stop. That is her issue. Now go check the latest polls about the war and see who agrees with whom. |
Most Americans don't agree with her interpretation of the war. |
Check the polls. More and more are coming around to her pov.
Joo Rhipp Gwa Rhee said :
| Quote: |
The Bobster thinks that the US has no right to force mideast regimes and elites to stop teaching hate , incitining violence,. planning terror and funding Al Qaida. Well sorry Bob.
The Bobster replied :
| Quote: |
| Youhave devoted space on your hard drive to things I said - which I still agree with - months ago and no longer availble for perusal. How do you plan to defend a bald-faced lie such as this? |
there is no lie , you have said what you have. and your quotes can be found on other threads. |
I'm happy to wait until you find any such proof that I ever said any such thing. Very happy to wait.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Clue : I never said those things. Earth calling Joo, do you read me, r Tom?Frankly, I think you are drifing in a most peculiar way ... |
Well you are the Bobster. |
Happy to wait for you to prove you are not lying, and happy to listen to your thoughts about Cindy Sheehan ... um, do you have any? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
