Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[Homer]

Joo,

Your statement about the laws and hakwons is much too general and sweeping for it to have credibility.

It is true the hakwon industry needs reforming because some bad employers cheat.
However the hakwon lobby you are refering too is not very credible. I am sure the bigger chains must have influence on the government (like most big corporations do). However, it is a very big (an quite untenable) logical leap to say that the laws currently in place are the direct result of hakwon influence on the government.

Why is there nothing wrong with stiffing the Korean government or your employer?

What if your particular emplyer is not stiffing you? How would you justify your actions then?

This 'they' you use seems to imply that the hakwons are one monolithical entity with bad intentions that applies a concerted policy of cheating.
In reality thats not the case at all as the hakwon industry is not that coordinated and is mostly independently owned and operated schools (except for the big boys).


As for 2 wrongs sometimes making a right, perhaps this is true in certain circumstances. However your examples of two wrongs is not it.
What you say is that because you assume that all hakwons cheat their employees you are justified in cheating yourself. This cannot be taken very seriously at all.

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

Unless you are stealing their students you are not cheating anyone. Hogowns that treat their employees well are not going to have a big problem with privates.



I think the big boys are a major reason (not the only reason) why Korean E-2 laws are the way they are.

I agree with the rest of what you said - sort of. If you are at a good school that treats you well and allows you ample OT at a decent rate - there is no reason for you to be doing privates. on the other other hand The big chains like YBM and the others who pay so little deserve to have their teachers doing privates. Doing privates balances it out.

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

I agree with Joo that it's likely that the Hagwons do have influence with the government regarding the private laws.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Homer]

It is true indeed that the laws about pvts predate the rise of the hakwon industry. They were put on the books in an effort to stop the two speed education system (this did not work in the end of course!).

The E-2 visa is an immigration policy initiative. Its tailored around the basic idea that the Korean government has about foreign workers.
Agian, the hakwons are not dictating policy or law here, some of the bigger ones may have a some influence but the 'industry' as a whole.

Finally, doing pvts balances what out Joo?
If a person signs with a school-chain that pays less then others well then thats his or choice to do so. The balancing out implies that the school did something wrong here. What did they do? They offered what they feel was a good contract (of course many times these contracts are not so great compared with others as far as pay) and the person chose to sign it. No cheating here hence no balancing out needed.
As for the school deserving its teachers doing pvts thats not a very good argument.
The better argument seem to be that the person doing pvts does so because he or she just wants more money. Now thats a solid argument because its the basis of it all.
Now, what if you are hired by a decent school and make a good wage. The school does not give you 'ample OT' because it doesn't have any to give. Now, you as a teacher there (like many have pointed out in this very thread) have signed a contract that states you will respect the laws of the country. Yet, you do pvts anyway, what does that balance out?

Just keep it to the plain simple truth: its a money grab. As long as thats in the open there is no problem. Its the whole 'they' deserve it or I was shafted argument thats often used as a justification that gets annoying.

A person could even argue that if you sign a contract and your employer does not live up to it, it still does not justify pvts because in reality you should just get your release and move on to a better place without resorting to illegal pvts. But thats taking it to extremes of course....

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

The big chains get people who don�t know any better �notice YBMS tricky advertising about 90 hours a month . Then they lock them in. with E-2s.

The Korean government is creepy and so are the big chains. Privates and second location work balance what they do out.


And getting release letters has not always been so easy and it still probably isn't. A few years ago you employers were refusing to give them out and the Korean government was not forcing employeers who refused to give them out. And also for a time the Korean government was not even accepting release letters.

and the whole E-2 system (not just the part about private teaching ) is very likely influenced by the hogwons.

As I said privates help balance what they do out.

[Homer]

Joo,


Statements like this do not help you make your point. In fact they take away from the credibility of what your are trying to say.

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

Homer: Are 3d workers who run away from their Korean employers immoral?

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[Homer]

Oh boy..here we go again...

I am not getting into this useless debate with you kiwiboy.

Also thanks for taking yet further lower with your insults. It truly shows your quality.

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

It's true though. A real man would stand up for his beliefs.

[Homer]

Keep it up kiwiboy...your realy showing how much class you have and what kind of person you are.

Well done.

[Gord]

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

OK fair call about the personal comment, I'd hardly call it a viscious attack, but I take it back and I apologise, hope that makes people feel better. All I'm doing is trying get get Homer to admit that he is actually against anyone doing privates, even though he said earlier that he doesn't care as long as they are prepared to face the risks and don't let their students down. If he is against anyone doing privates, that's as valid as any position to have on the topic, I'm just confused by how he says he doesn't care, and then posts so much about it.

I see this thread as an opinion topic that can never result in a clear answer, as it's about morals. Aside from that latest dig at Homer which I took back I've just been posting my opinion, same as anyone else.