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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Provide me a better translation?
5,6 make no reference to rape or violence. Obey dad and mom and don't kill don't suffice. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
I was talking about the Ten Commandments. Those are the ones that "instruct" people how to live. The fact that many times people failed to live up to said commandments does not negate that.
And I love how from one post you deduced that I was one of "You people".
Because I've read the Bible, I'm automatically Christian....  |
Do you honestly believe, as Hitchens has so eloquently alluded to before, that the ancient Hebrews had no idea of morality before Moses and the tablets came along?
Peace |
By no means. The Ten Commandments however codified these moral beliefs. |
And, do you believe that has improved the moral situation of humanity?
Peace |
How many people keep them? Let's suppose that EVERYONE kept the ten commandments (well at least the ones dealing with man's relationships to man). Do you honestly believe having a world with no killing or stealing or envy would be morally inferior to the one we have now? |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
I was talking about the Ten Commandments. Those are the ones that "instruct" people how to live. The fact that many times people failed to live up to said commandments does not negate that.
And I love how from one post you deduced that I was one of "You people".
Because I've read the Bible, I'm automatically Christian.... |
Do you honestly believe, as Hitchens has so eloquently alluded to before, that the ancient Hebrews had no idea of morality before Moses and the tablets came along?
Peace |
By no means. The Ten Commandments however codified these moral beliefs. |
And, do you believe that has improved the moral situation of humanity?
Peace |
How many people keep them? Let's suppose that EVERYONE kept the ten commandments (well at least the ones dealing with man's relationships to man). Do you honestly believe having a world with no killing or stealing or envy would be morally inferior to the one we have now? |
No. But sacred writings are not going to effect those things.
At least they have not for the last 2000 - 3000 years.
Peace
Last edited by seoulunitarian on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Seoulunitarian - sorry for the delay. I needed the bathroom.
To be honest, I decided to follow Islam after I studied other beliefs.
Therefore, my honest answer is I will never entertain the possibility that Islam is wrong, because I am sure it is correct. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Let's suppose that EVERYONE kept the ten commandments (well at least the ones dealing with man's relationships to man). Do you honestly believe having a world with no killing or stealing or envy would be morally inferior to the one we have now? |
If the Christian tradition started and stopped at the commandments I've highlighted as good, plus a few extra ones (google the secular ten commandments to see what might be needed) then I would be so hostile to it.
But presenting Christian teaching and tradition as starting and stopping at the TC's is quite an inaccurate description of the religion. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: re: |
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Have a good evening all!
Peace |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Provide me a better translation?
5,6 make no reference to rape or violence. Obey dad and mom and don't kill don't suffice. |
The only way to provide a better translation is if you can read Hebrew.
whoops that should be 6,7...mistyped thanks for the eagle eye. 
violence can lead to murder thus prohibited
rape was covered under adultery thus prohibited. Adultery meant ANY sexual act with a woman who was not one's wife/concubine. If you raped a woman you were liable to be stoned to death.
The Ten Commandments weren't and weren't suppposed to be so narrowly defined as you seem to think. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| How about the violation of intellectual property? What would the ten commandments opinion on "fair use" be? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Let's suppose that EVERYONE kept the ten commandments (well at least the ones dealing with man's relationships to man). Do you honestly believe having a world with no killing or stealing or envy would be morally inferior to the one we have now? |
If the Christian tradition started and stopped at the commandments I've highlighted as good, plus a few extra ones (google the secular ten commandments to see what might be needed) then I would be so hostile to it.
But presenting Christian teaching and tradition as starting and stopping at the TC's is quite an inaccurate description of the religion. |
I actually agree. But I never said that it was. Let me tell you a little story.
A Roman soldier came to a Christian monk and made him a bet on the following terms. If the Christian monk could teach him the Christian faith in the time he (the soldier) could stand on one leg for, the soldier would become a Christian. "Very well" said the monk.
"This is what you must do.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul, and mind
Love your neighbor as yourself"
Basically that's the Christian religion in a nutshell. When you think about it that covers just about everything including rape, murder, assault.... |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| What about hating gays and killing your farmer brother who planted different crops side by side? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| How about the violation of intellectual property? What would the ten commandments opinion on "fair use" be? |
Good question. Probably it would be to get the person's permission. However in this day and age it can be impossible to do so, which is why we have government guidelines for that kind of thing. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| What about hating gays and killing your farmer brother who planted different crops side by side? |
Those are clear violations of the Commandments wouldn't you say? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| What about hating gays and killing your farmer brother who planted different crops side by side? |
Those are clear violations of the Commandments wouldn't you say? |
But you gotta obey god. Doesn't that come first? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| What about hating gays and killing your farmer brother who planted different crops side by side? |
Those are clear violations of the Commandments wouldn't you say? |
But you gotta obey god. Doesn't that come first? |
By keeping the Commandments you ARE. God was the one who handed down those very commandments to Moses if I have my Bible straight.
Plus does the verse "Judge not lest ye be judged" sound familiar?
Or what about "Hate the sin, love the sinner."?
God is the one who will punish sin. It's not OUR job to do so. So hating gays and killing your brother is wrong. Would YOU not agree with that last sentence?
BTW when I say "sin" I mean it in the moral sense. Obviously I believe the government has a right to punish CRIME which I use in the sense of breaking the law as opposed to a moral sin. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| So, the whole bible must be thrown out then eh? Christianity, minus Christ, taken down to 3 or 4 godless commandments. |
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