Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Sergio Stefanuto]

[calicoe]

[Epicurus]

[calicoe]

[calicoe]

[The Gipkik]

Well, I can say this anyways: My Dad had me when he was in his late fifties and I grew up perfectly fine thanks, no third eye, six fingers or toes, no diminished cognitive skills or psychological deficits. In fact, I'm 5 inches taller than the old man. The only down side to having kids when you are older is the very sad reality of having to say goodbye way too soon.

[Epicurus]

[Epicurus]

[Sergio Stefanuto]

[Starla]

[Cheonmunka]

My father ran marathons to a point now that he is 70 cannot find any energetically compatible women his age. He says talking with women his age is like being with his grandma - they sort of scold him and won't let him do stuff.
He wants to climb hills, swim in the ocean, throw his stuff in a backpack and get on a plane at a whim (he came to Korea last year and is now in SEA ) yet all the 60's women he's dated he says cannot do that with him.

So, he has had to go younger - 20+ years younger to get near his energy levels.

[Leslie Cheswyck]

Half the man's age +7. What'd I say?

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/access-hollywood-george-clooney-venice.html

Remember that formula!

[calicoe]

Power to your dad. My biological mother was exactly the same way, but with men her age. Her hair did not even turn white until she was 80 years old. I am in no way arguing against older births, or that it is not possible to have a healthy child. I am also a product of older parents, both biologically and by adoption. Many of my female friends are having healthy babies in their forties, most with males in the same age group or older. And statistically, the rate of women delaying pregnancies until their forties has increased significantly all over the developed world, while teenage pregancies have declined.

What I am saying is that while women have always been aware, warned and even blamed for the limitations and risks of delaying parenthood, males have not. New emerging research is showing that this is a significant oversight, and it is being revised.. Here is my point: OLDER PATERNAL BIRTHS ALSO CARRY SIGNIFCANT DE NOVO MUTATION RISK. RISKS. All statistics can be turned around to put risk and chances in perspective (thanks Sergio), but one could also argue that the chances for older woment to conceive babies without Down's Syndrome is statistically greater than those who do.

However, we are warned when there is a scientifically significant INCREASED risk factor, regardless of what the chances are for a healthy birth. Delayed male paternity is now found to similarly warrant warnings of INCREASED risk factors, for a combined set of de novo mutations.

PERIOD.

www.bionews.org.uk
Increased fertility problems for men over 40
07 July 2008

The results showed that, independent of the woman's age, the chances of miscarriage rose from 16.7 per cent if the man was 30-35 years old, to 32.5 per cent if he was over 40. Although the impact of the female 'biological clock' on fertility has been widely studied, this is the first time that such a strong paternal effect on reproductive outcome has been shown.

Older fathers link to increased miscarriage risk
04 August 2006

New research from US scientists, based at the Columbia University School of Public Health and the New York Psychiatric Institute, suggests that woman who become pregnant by older men are at greater risk of miscarriage. Results indicate that as the male partner ages there is a steady increase in rate of miscarriage.
The study of nearly 14000 women who were pregnant in the 1960s and 70s found that the risk of miscarriage to expectant mothers was 60 per cent higher when the father was aged 40 or over compared to when he was 25-29 years old.
Age made a difference even for men in their 30s. The risk of losing the baby was also about three times greater when the man was aged between 35 and 39 years of age than if he were younger than 25.
This finding was independent of the woman's age

Older father link to birth defects
21 July 2005

(The bold makes it easier for you Sergio)

The researchers found that there was no overall increased risk of birth defects related to increasing paternal age. However, they did find a link between older fathers and a raised risk of certain conditions - including Down syndrome and some syndromes involving multiple body systems or limb malformations. Compared to younger men aged between 20-29 years, the incidence of Down syndrome increased by 15 per cent in men aged over 35, rising to 30-40 per cent in fathers over 40. In men over 50, the risk was around three times higher that of younger men.
Previous research has shown that 5-9 per cent of Down syndrome cases are caused by a chromosome abnormality (an extra copy of chromosome 21) inherited from the father. The scientists say their results suggest that a high paternal age - as well as a high maternal age - could be 'an indication for screening'. They conclude that 'advanced paternal age may be associated with an increased occurrence.

Paternal Age and Risk of Schizophrenia in Adult Offspring, Alan S. Brown, M.D., et al, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University and DEpt. of Epidemiology of Brain Disorders, NYS Psychiatric Institute (Can't copy the link right now for some reason).

"We have demonstrated a significant, dose-dependent association between advancing paternal age and risk of schizophrenia, and other schizophrenia spectrum disorders ... "


etc., etc.

[Epicurus]

once again calicoe the problem with your statistics is that they don't cite the actual risk.

they cite change, percentage wise.

if the initial risk is extremely low, even a 50% increase in that risk (which sounds very very scary) is actually almost meaningless.

the best evidence we have is societal, with a very large statistical sample.

For a 1000 years plus old men were marrying young women and siring children with them in traditional patriarchial societies and the naked eye could never discern a break from the normal patterns and incidences of the child "not being quite right". And this is something people would immediately notice, people being "people".

Which pretty much means if you're meant to be unlucky, you're going to be unlucky at almost any age.

so, needless to say your 15%, 25% etc increased odds of this and that and whatever aren't scaring me ONE tiny little bit from having a child in my say mid fifites if that's what I choose to do.

This apart from the fact that the woman remains the primary determinant in fertility, and other risk factors.

[Sergio Stefanuto]